Quick question

T

the-patient

Inspired
Hey, a while back I came on here whining about my sounds.

To make a long story short, I was not happy with the axe-fx sounds I was getting in studio, and I've been thinking about it lately.

I was running: PRS standard 24 statin > Axefx, out 1 > avalon tube mic pre > into board/poweramps/monitors.

now, I'm not sure if my logic is right here, but could the fact that I'm running a preamp into a preamp be causing all this fizzyness, and high frequency distortion?

I hope so.

With all these people becoming part of the axe camp, it's really hard to put this sounds down as the machine, it must be my own error.
 
the-patient said:
Hey, a while back I came on here whining about my sounds.

To make a long story short, I was not happy with the axe-fx sounds I was getting in studio, and I've been thinking about it lately.

I was running: PRS standard 24 statin > Axefx, out 1 > avalon tube mic pre > into board/poweramps/monitors.

now, I'm not sure if my logic is right here, but could the fact that I'm running a preamp into a preamp be causing all this fizzyness, and high frequency distortion?

I hope so.

With all these people becoming part of the axe camp, it's really hard to put this sounds down as the machine, it must be my own error.
Click to expand...

have you tried going into a line input somewhere and avoiding the mic pre? Or better yet try a digital input.
 
Did you try running it without the tube pre just to see? It seems possible to be clipping it and I can't see where it's necessary to have a preamp between the Axe and board/poweramp. Easy enough to test... yank her out and tell us if it improves.


edit - you beat me to it rsf :lol:
 
yea i think a lot of folks in general are still in that line 6 modeller train of thought that if there isn't a real tube somewhere between the emulator and the speaker it isn't going to sound "good". And I'll be the first to say with other modellers it's pretty accurate lol, but with the axe-fx i find the more stuff i can take out of the signal path the better everything is. I don't think there is any real need for a tube mic pre, but I haven't tried it either so maybe it is doing something magical. I'd love to hear a clip with and without it.
 
we're back in the studio tomorrow night and I'm gonna give it a shot.

I didn't add the mic pre out of lack of confidence toward the axe-fx, it was mostly a convenience thing.

it's a really complicated system, with a really big old analog board, so I wasn't really sure where to patch everything in, and i knew the mic pre was patched so I just did it.

interesting how you have to rethink everything about gear when you start using this thing.

Ps: InsideOut, are you think same InsideOut as on thestompbox? if so, nice to see you hear man :D
 
the other thing with running into a mic pre to be aware of because the axe-fx is really hot you most likely will have to PAD down the input or it might clip, that's why everyone tries to use line level inputs when going out of their box. Another option is to run the line out thru a DI-box to get it into a mic pre correctly. Anyway there's tons of talk about these situations on here so just look around. Here's one thread I started a while back that might be helpful.

FRFR: Live Performance Q & A: http://fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8338
 
If you are driving the tube preamp into significant distortion then yes, that will royally screw up your sound and put a high frequency "hash", "fizz", or whatever you want to call it on top of it.

There is no filtering of the high frequency harmonics that would be generated by the preamp (it's kind of like running an amp driven to distortion without a cab).

Why you would need a preamp to interface the already extremely hot outputs of the AXE-FX to any other device is beyond me. The output volume knob should put the signal level wherever you need it. You should not need a preamp after the AXE-FX.

Stephen Cole
 
Hey there Mr. Patient! Yep, it's the same me as TSB :shock: . Nice to see you too :cool: .

I think you'll get it figured out. My general rule of thumb is to have as few things in my chain as I can get away with. That way there's less things to screw everything up :lol:
 
rsf1977 said:
the other thing with running into a mic pre to be aware of because the axe-fx is really hot you most likely will have to PAD down the input or it might clip, that's why everyone tries to use line level inputs when going out of their box. Another option is to run the line out thru a DI-box to get it into a mic pre correctly. Anyway there's tons of talk about these situations on here so just look around. Here's one thread I started a while back that might be helpful.

FRFR: Live Performance Q & A: http://fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8338
Click to expand...

There is no practical purpose for a direct box in this case. The outputs of the AXE-FX are +18dBu at 100 ohms, both unbalanced 1/4" as well as balanced XLR. What is a direct box going to do? Nothing, except give you maybe 4 to 6 dB of gain before its output clips around +22dBu and ruins your sound.

You use a direct box to buffer an unbalanced, high impedence pickup or mic and convert it to a low impedance (usually balanced) signal to keep from loading your source and to allow long cable runs without (mostly high frequency) signal loss.

Forget the direct box, ditch the tube preamp, and plug the AXE-FX directly into the line ins on the board. Turn the volume output knob on the AXE-FX to drive the inputs of the console hard enough to use most of the headroom but not hard enough to clip them. Turn down any trim controls on the console first - use as high an output level on the AXE as you can get away with without clipping the console input to keep noise down.

Stephen Cole
 
From the thread that was linked to:

"Soundguy ask, "What are you using and what do you need?"

I'm using a complete modelling unit for all my tone; amps, effects, everything so send me a balanced XLR cable that i can plug into my Line-Level FX unit into.

Some sound guys don't understand that or like to do that... so then say, "OK just give me a DI box". So they give me a DI box that is plugged into that XLR cable. Just unplug the cable from the DI then either plug that cable directly into my AxeFX or I just attach one of my XLR cables to extend it to reach my AxeFX.

That's good advice. Don't even try to explain it, seriously. I've had guys want to actually run the output of an FRFR amp modeler into a guitar amp so they could put a mic on it and get a sound. Clueless. And these guys are paid.

Stephen Cole
 
Yeah, like I said, I didn't run it into the preamp for any real practical reason, other than it was the simplest way to patch into the board.

Lazy, I know, but as it stands I don't have any patches that I'm happy enough with to put on an album, and I'm still using my Vox for my main guitar sounds (I've heard clips that sounds as good or better, but I still haven't wrapped my head around the learning curve just yet).

I'll try it through the board next time, and understand what you mean about adding heat to an already hot signal!

Updates tomorrow or thursday morning, for sure.

dylan
 
sampleaccurate said:
Some sound guys don't understand that or like to do that... so then say, "OK just give me a DI box". So they give me a DI box that is plugged into that XLR cable. Just unplug the cable from the DI then either plug that cable directly into my AxeFX or I just attach one of my XLR cables to extend it to reach my AxeFX.

That's good advice. Don't even try to explain it, seriously. I've had guys want to actually run the output of an FRFR amp modeler into a guitar amp so they could put a mic on it and get a sound. Clueless. And these guys are paid.

Stephen Cole
Click to expand...
haha yeah i said that, and i mean it! i just drag that di box near my rig, and then pop out the xlr and then into my axefx... just make sure that you don't have any signal going cuz it JUST might pop if he's running phantom.

sometimes you have to actually show them "LOOK!! XLR OUT!!!"
 
Another point: Do you use stereo patches and run just one channel into the mic preamp? That probably will sound odd.

Michael
 
So,

It worked. Thank god.

It actually made me wanna sell my Vox AC30, 2x12 with blues AND my pedalboard.

I can't wait till I have more time with this, now that I've gotten it a little more figured.

This thing is amazing, once I get some custom IR's going and stuff, it's gonna be terrifying.

I'm glad to finally be one of the excited members of the community, rather than a disappointed one. This makes me realize that all the "it sucks, and it's not toobs." people really just need to spend more time.

....to each his own I guess though, ultimate flexibility, reliability, and performance aren't for just anyone.

dylan


edit: by it worked, I meant that I am no longer running into the front of the Avalon, I am running into a line level input on the board. and it made a monstrous difference.
 
the-patient said:
So,

It worked. Thank god.

It actually made me wanna sell my Vox AC30, 2x12 with blues AND my pedalboard.

I can't wait till I have more time with this, now that I've gotten it a little more figured.

This thing is amazing, once I get some custom IR's going and stuff, it's gonna be terrifying.

I'm glad to finally be one of the excited members of the community, rather than a disappointed one. This makes me realize that all the "it sucks, and it's not toobs." people really just need to spend more time.

....to each his own I guess though, ultimate flexibility, reliability, and performance aren't for just anyone.

dylan


edit: by it worked, I meant that I am no longer running into the front of the Avalon, I am running into a line level input on the board. and it made a monstrous difference.
Click to expand...

I only say I told you so when the outcome is a happy one.

I told you so!

Now prepare to get lost in your new found world.

Stephen Cole
 
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