Questions regarding using Scenes

I've always used multi-timbral / multi-functional presets, even before scenes existed on the Axe-II [I did it via modifiers]
scenes made life a lot easier and seriously reduced the number of modifiers I needed to make it all happen..

1. If you are using Scenes, why?
so that I can switch between tones within a preset.

What are the major benefits?
switching tones within a preset provides smoother / seamless tone transitions and preserves the reverb / delay tails

If you used to, but went back to Block mode, what didn't work for you?
by block mode I suspect you mean going back to switching presets rather than scenes..
this has never worked for me with the Axe-II.. it sounds far to clumsy..
the only fx-unit that can seamlessly switch presets that I've ever had is the Digitech 2120..
since then [with the VG-99 and Axe-II] I've had to switch tones within a single preset

2. What layout did you find worked best for you, in the MFC101, and in your patch progressions (Scenes)?
row1 [scenes]: riff - solo - clean - misc1 - misc2
row2 [fx]: a controller per switch so that I can assign one or more fx-block bypass [via a modifiers]
row3 [preset]: presets 1 thru 5

Mostly it seems everyone gravitates from 1 being Clean, 2 progressively Crunchier, and the latter patches being more "Effected". Any thoughts on this?
I have my most commonly used to [riff] on switch 1, this is so it's on an outside corner of the MFC.. this makes it an easy / reliable target to stomp on.
switch 2 is solo because I like it being next to the riff switch

3. In searching through the Forum, I didn't find a lot of useful info. Maybe I'm not using the best search terms, or something; it seemed like there was a lot of discussion a year or so ago, but I'm not seeing much now. Any great threads to get some insight from?
that surprises me.. the thing with scenes is that they can be as simple or complex as you like.. from simply switching on/off and individual fx-block, to essentially reconfiguring your entire fx chain / signal path..
 
clarky said:
3. In searching through the Forum, I didn't find a lot of useful info. Maybe I'm not using the best search terms, or something; it seemed like there was a lot of discussion a year or so ago, but I'm not seeing much now. Any great threads to get some insight from?
that surprises me.. the thing with scenes is that they can be as simple or complex as you like.. from simply switching on/off and individual fx-block, to essentially reconfiguring your entire fx chain / signal path..
Click to expand...

Mainly this seems to be a Forum search issue. The Forum's software limits to 100-hits per search, so with a search target like "Scenes", you only get the last 3-months or so of threads. I've been getting around this (very CLUMSILY, I might add), by changing the dates of the search target, or using Google to search. None of these are great search methods; would be great if our Forum software allowed a more comprehensive search - but that's another thread. It is what's limiting my own research, though. Since I've been late to the party to jump on the Scenes bandwagon, most of the more pertinent discussions were a year ago, and don't show up in my searches, without finessing my search parameters.
 
api4u said:
Mainly this seems to be a Forum search issue. The Forum's software limits to 100-hits per search, so with a search target like "Scenes", you only get the last 3-months or so of threads. I've been getting around this (very CLUMSILY, I might add), by changing the dates of the search target, or using Google to search. None of these are great search methods; would be great if our Forum software allowed a more comprehensive search - but that's another thread. It is what's limiting my own research, though. Since I've been late to the party to jump on the Scenes bandwagon, most of the more pertinent discussions were a year ago, and don't show up in my searches, without finessing my search parameters.
Click to expand...

in that case.... why not start a thread of your own..
in this thread, you can list out your needs.. folks can chip in and make suggestions as to the approach and the config itself [both Axe and MFC]..
you can create a few experimental presets.. do not get all hung up about the tone [you can sort that later].. focus on how things work from a performance standpoint..
looking at the tonal transitions being nice and smooth... the tone 'layout' as you'd see it on the MFC [don't forget you have a gig with your feet too]..

there as quite a few ways to go about all this.. it's just a matter of finding what works best for you
 
Same set up here but I have Preset = 3

On my MFC buttons 1, 2 and 3 are for patch or preset select 4 = Scene 4 Special and 5 Scene 5= Scene 5 special

All my preset have this. If u see examples from Fremen or Simeon for example (i.e. power users) they sometimes use scenes to trigger arpeggiator keys, etc.

I have my externals (TT Pro) under my MFC and Scene 1 = Clean, Scene 2 = Rythm, Scene 3 = Rythm 2 (Extra Dirty) and Scene 4 = Lead


iaresee said:
More likely it's become entrenched than falling out of favour. There just aren't as many that are new to it any more who need to ask questions or discuss it. Like most excellent ideas, there's a wave of surprise and discussion followed by a decline and entrenchment and a lull where we forget how awful the world was before the idea existed and just accept that it was always there.

:)



NB: the alternative to scenes is changing patches. Not sure what "Block mode" is...

I use scenes because, with in one patch, I can get the 5 sounds I need to move through any song I'm playing. I generally set up my scenes as clean -> dirty -> very dirty -> lead -> special. Every patch is like that. And scenes let me move very rapidly, with no delays, through those fives settings in each of my gigging patches. The major benefits are fast switching. Reduced patches. If I change an amp model now, five sounds based around that block are changed at once, which is really handy.

I went from like 25+ patches to 5 for my main patches.



I have scene 1-5 on the first five switches and the rest are all IAs. I use the up/down buttons to move between patches. That's bank size zero mode on the MFC.



I dunno...I have my monster gig patch from last year that talks about the patches I use and the scene choices in them. Those presets are old now though. I should do an update some time... See: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-preset-exchange/76356-iaresees-gig-patches-monster-post.html

And Cooper Carter has an excellent video tutorial here: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/mfc-discussion/61105-tutorial-using-scenes-axe-fx-ii-mfc-101-a.html
Click to expand...
 
You may also want to check out MFC presets in the manual. They give similar functionality (it's what I used to use before Scenes) but the set up is controlled from the MFC rather than in the Axe. While overall I think Scenes are more useful and flexible, there are still some advantages to MFC presets that might fit your needs better.
 
api4u said:
^^ that's what I'm shooting for.

I've been toying with adding a Volume/Pan Block, which is adding another "issue".

I often leave most of my gear at the rehearsal space, and just bring home my Axe FX and guitars. If I add a Vol Block (controlled by Pedal 1), and don't have a volume pedal plugged in, I get no output - so it looks like I'd have to cart my pedal-board back and forth, as well, or disable the Vol block each time I change patches. Not a huge biggie, but is there any way to put the Vol block into my presets, before the 'verbs & delays, like Chris mentions above, and still get output if no effects pedal is plugged in, w/o turning the vol block off each time I change patches?

I'm just trying to be lazy, and not have to cart the pedal board home every night, in addition to the processor & guitars.
Click to expand...

Chris already mentioned how to fix the no-output-when-no-pedal-attached problem but I'd also like to point out that you can have more than one VOL block all assigned to the SAME controller. So you can control the volume at multiple points in your patch from a single pedal. This can make multi-output patches a little easier to create; you don't have to sweat the placement of a single VOL block, you just place one at the end of your backline chain and one in front of the FXL for the FOH chain.
 
I tried scenes for just a bit and had to go back. I just couldn't remember what I had on for each scene and had a hard time at the gig. Think I'm just to used to seeing all the blocks in front of me on the pedalboard and hitting what I need quickly.
 
Keg8605 said:
I tried scenes for just a bit and had to go back. I just couldn't remember what I had on for each scene and had a hard time at the gig. Think I'm just to used to seeing all the blocks in front of me on the pedalboard and hitting what I need quickly.
Click to expand...

you need to standardize..
for example.. have a preset that'll have all your basic tones that'll get you through most of your songs..
then you have a copy of that preset that'll contain the "extras" to address specifically a few songs that have slightly different needs..

for example..
all of my presets are:
scene1 = riff
scene2 = solo
scene3 = clean
scene4 = misc1
scene5 = misc2

my main preset is called Riff/Solo1
misc1 is set the same as the solo scene but has less less, less top and a stronger delay [for soloing during a ballad]
misc2 is set the same as clean but has a chorus [which is used in just one song]
Riff/Solo1 will get me through most of the set on it's own

Riff/Solo2 is a copy of Riff/Solo1 but with the difference that the dirty to clean morphing is a little different [for just one song]
instead of morphing clean, it morphs to a crunch, and as it cleans a phaser and delay fading in..

Riff/Solo3 is a copy of Riff/Solo1 but the soloing tone is much quieter and has no delay [because I'm dueting with it. Plus I'm the secondary [rather than the primary] voice in the duet.. so I need to sit a little behind the main instrument that's carrying the melody.. like a guitar playing BV's I guess.. lol..

all this means I have a constent setup, set of fundamental tones etc.. less to remember.. more reliable / predictable performance experience..
 
api4u said:
1. If you are using Scenes, why?
Click to expand...

To cut down on the number of presets I need. I'm in a cover band and we have a catalog of north of 100 songs. While I had a few duplicates, I pretty much had a separate preset for each song and for some, I had multiple presets. The presets were getting unwieldy, especially tweaking them for new FW releases. I consolidated the ones that use the same amps/cabs.

The only downside was that even though I'm down to 50 presets or so, switching became more of a pain in the ass because I had to switch in and out of Reveal. I was about to do the trick of switching rows on my MFC, but I tried Setlist Maker and that has really made everything easy. Before the show, I just create a set list and my iPad changes the preset for me when I tap it. It's awesome.
 
I have 3 scenes setup on my LFPRO... I use 1 for special effects of the patch or clean / acoustic sound, 2 for main sound, 3 for lead. easy to remember.
 
Ok, I've been fiddling about with Scenes on my first five presets, and have learned a couple of things that blew a couple of misconceptions I had out of the water. I'll mention them here, in case anyone else is in the same boat:

1. I thought your MFC101 had to either be set up for Presets, or Scenes. Not so. It's very easy to switch back and forth, by simply tapping on the "Reveal" switch. It only takes a second to switch back, any time.

2. The "Reveal" switch can also be used to turn the Looper preset on or off. Place the Looper as the last preset in your preset layout, and tap the Reveal switch to activate the Looper. The Reveal switch, by default, turns your MFC101 into Scenes mode with a short tap, and into Looper mode, with a long tap; another short tap turns Scenes or Looper back off, and you're back into Preset or Scenes mode, just like you were before you pressed the Reveal switch. It's really that easy to turn Scenes on or off. I set my Looper to start with a short tap, and Scenes with a longer tap, opposite of the default MFC101 setting - this seems more user friendly to me, to be able to do a Looper tap dance.

3.By default, each Scene in a preset uses the same setting values - the only thing that changes is turning a block on or off. If you add an effect or block in one of the Scenes within a preset, it adds this effect to all of the Scenes, within that same preset.

4. Although the preset values stay the same from Scene to Scene, within that preset, it's not hard to set up Scene Controller values, that will change values in a single Scene, within a given preset. In other words, the preset values don't "have" to be the same from scene to scene, although they will by default, unless you establish Scene Controllers in a preset. If you don't have Scene Controllers, you'll mostly only be able to turn individual effects or blocks on/off within various Scenes.

5. I thought that adding in Volume/Pan block required me to have a volume pedal hooked up all the time, or I'd get no output volume - not so, if you set the external midi controller value to 100% (see Chris's thread #20, above - works perfectly). Also, this seems to let Outputs 1 (FOH) and 2 (stage FRFR) track each other more evenly, now. Prior to this I had both outputs set with the same midi value, which worked fine, but maybe didn't track the individual ranges as evenly, if for example you have FOH set to 12 o'clock, and stage monitor set to 9 o'clock. I may be imagining this, so this is not a biggie, but it does work, anyway, so that's it for that one.

6. Knowing how easy it is to switch between Presets or Scenes, now, using the Reveal button, there's no reason to not at least try Scenes for a bit. It's nothing more than a second to easily switch back out to Presets, anytime you want. I was afraid setting up Scenes meant I'd have more or less "permanent" changes in the MFC, that would only be reversible by re-programming it back to where it was before. I also thought I'd not have ready access to the Presets 6 through 384 (assuming Banks 5 across) - once you switch out of Scenes, using the Reveal button, you're right back where you started, in Presets mode, if that was where you were before.

I know...late to the party, and one heck of a slow learner. I was WAY over-thinking it. I still have a ton to learn, but if you haven't at least tried Scenes, there's really nothing to be afraid of. It wasn't difficult. Hope that encourages anyone else to give it a shot.

Thanks millions for all your patient responses - I don't think anyone turned schizoid on me for asking lots of questions on things that weren't adding up in my head. I'd also still like to hear from anyone else on their good or bad experiences with Scenes, and recommendations on how to most effectively use them (or why you chose to stay back out of them).
 
Moke said:
And..........another Scene-aholic is born.............:encouragement:
Click to expand...


More like a Scenie-Weenie :stupid:

..... you don't graduate to being a Scene-aholic until you really figure it out, and can't get enough :very_drunk:
 
If FAS had not added scenes, I would not be able to pull off what I do. It would be impossible to step back and forth through presets, for me anyways. I have many presets for songs like Dani California, Hallowed be Thy Name for example that I use all 8 scenes and need to be able to go back and forth through them. I am the sole guitarist for my band and I do all the parts possible including harmonies and synths and atmosphere, I push the Axe to it's limit in almost every preset I use.

I only need to change presets during a song, for 1 song on our set list of 50 cover tunes. Rebel Yell, as the synth (which I downloaded from axe-change) is too complex and requires it's own preset, and to be honest, I've not gotten to tweaking it and merging into one preset yet which I'm sure it will be possible because I was able to fit Muse's "Uprising" into a single preset complete with Synth no problem.

So basically I have the songs in sequential order, as I'm a preset per song approach, and just step up through them as we go through the set, using scenes exclusively for changes throughout the song.

Here is how I set up my MFC currently. - I use Song Mode and Bank size 0 or none? anyways it's the same as using reveal. It's works for me.

View attachment 23345

I also have 3 expression pedals which with scenes are the most used. I say that because I only really have the effects assigned there as a visual notifier as to their status and maybe quick access if fooling around, but I also have a couple "stock" type presets for open jams and noodling, and I still use scenes exclusively.


NOTE: I don't actually use any labels, I just know what is where for my set up. The picture above is a cut paste from an image I found on google, with my own layout using copy paste and photoshop.
 
Last edited:
api4u said:
I haven't tried using Scenes, yet, but am giving it some thought; I don't see a lot of discussion about it, lately, so I'm thinking maybe it's falling out of favor? I'd be interested in hearing from some of you who are, or have, used Scenes as to the major advantages, and disadvantages of setting up this way.

1. If you are using Scenes, why? What are the major benefits? If you used to, but went back to Block mode, what didn't work for you? 1. I'm using them to make my switching seamless, my sounds more easily consistent from patch to patch, and for ease of letting reverbs and delays spill over.

2. What layout did you find worked best for you, in the MFC101, and in your patch progressions (Scenes)? Mostly it seems everyone gravitates from 1 being Clean, 2 progressively Crunchier, and the latter patches being more "Effected". Any thoughts on this? I have a clean (Amp 1) , grit (Amp 2), and a grittier sound(Amp 2+Drive). I then programmed IA4 to boost the gain, boost the level, and throw the boost switch of Amp 2 vs. having it switch to another amp or an x/y. This made for truly seamless switching. For fun, I also made IA 5 control the hold switch for my delay 2 block, allowing me to have final notes of solos spillover indefinitely after I switch back to any other sound. I've got nearly every effect in there, 2 amps, and stereo cabs, resulting in a nice, full, flexible sound, with gap-less switching.

3. In searching through the Forum, I didn't find a lot of useful info. Maybe I'm not using the best search terms, or something; it seemed like there was a lot of discussion a year or so ago, but I'm not seeing much now. Any great threads to get some insight from? I really hate to go through all my patches, to find I'm whistling in the wind.
Click to expand...

1. I'm using them to make my switching seamless, my sounds more easily consistent from "patch to patch", and for ease of letting reverbs and delays spill over.

2. I have a clean (Amp 1) , grit (Amp 2), and a grittier sound(Amp 2+Drive). I then programmed IA4 to boost the gain, increase the level by a few dB, and throw the boost switch of Amp 2 vs. having it switch to another amp or an x/y. This made for truly seamless switching. For fun, I also made IA 5 control the hold switch for my delay 2 block, allowing me to have final notes of solos spillover indefinitely after I switch back to any other sound. I've got nearly every effect in there, 2 amps, and stereo cabs, resulting in a nice, full, flexible sound, with gap-less switching and am using about 93% CPU, but everything sounds great!
 
api4u said:
Ok, I've been fiddling about with Scenes on my first five presets, and have learned a couple of things that blew a couple of misconceptions I had out of the water. I'll mention them here, in case anyone else is in the same boat:

1. I thought your MFC101 had to either be set up for Presets, or Scenes. Not so. It's very easy to switch back and forth, by simply tapping on the "Reveal" switch. It only takes a second to switch back, any time.

2. The "Reveal" switch can also be used to turn the Looper preset on or off. Place the Looper as the last preset in your preset layout, and tap the Reveal switch to activate the Looper. The Reveal switch, by default, turns your MFC101 into Scenes mode with a short tap, and into Looper mode, with a long tap; another short tap turns Scenes or Looper back off, and you're back into Preset or Scenes mode, just like you were before you pressed the Reveal switch. It's really that easy to turn Scenes on or off. I set my Looper to start with a short tap, and Scenes with a longer tap, opposite of the default MFC101 setting - this seems more user friendly to me, to be able to do a Looper tap dance.

3.By default, each Scene in a preset uses the same setting values - the only thing that changes is turning a block on or off. If you add an effect or block in one of the Scenes within a preset, it adds this effect to all of the Scenes, within that same preset.

4. Although the preset values stay the same from Scene to Scene, within that preset, it's not hard to set up Scene Controller values, that will change values in a single Scene, within a given preset. In other words, the preset values don't "have" to be the same from scene to scene, although they will by default, unless you establish Scene Controllers in a preset. If you don't have Scene Controllers, you'll mostly only be able to turn individual effects or blocks on/off within various Scenes.

5. I thought that adding in Volume/Pan block required me to have a volume pedal hooked up all the time, or I'd get no output volume - not so, if you set the external midi controller value to 100% (see Chris's thread #20, above - works perfectly). Also, this seems to let Outputs 1 (FOH) and 2 (stage FRFR) track each other more evenly, now. Prior to this I had both outputs set with the same midi value, which worked fine, but maybe didn't track the individual ranges as evenly, if for example you have FOH set to 12 o'clock, and stage monitor set to 9 o'clock. I may be imagining this, so this is not a biggie, but it does work, anyway, so that's it for that one.

6. Knowing how easy it is to switch between Presets or Scenes, now, using the Reveal button, there's no reason to not at least try Scenes for a bit. It's nothing more than a second to easily switch back out to Presets, anytime you want. I was afraid setting up Scenes meant I'd have more or less "permanent" changes in the MFC, that would only be reversible by re-programming it back to where it was before. I also thought I'd not have ready access to the Presets 6 through 384 (assuming Banks 5 across) - once you switch out of Scenes, using the Reveal button, you're right back where you started, in Presets mode, if that was where you were before.

I know...late to the party, and one heck of a slow learner. I was WAY over-thinking it. I still have a ton to learn, but if you haven't at least tried Scenes, there's really nothing to be afraid of. It wasn't difficult. Hope that encourages anyone else to give it a shot.

Thanks millions for all your patient responses - I don't think anyone turned schizoid on me for asking lots of questions on things that weren't adding up in my head. I'd also still like to hear from anyone else on their good or bad experiences with Scenes, and recommendations on how to most effectively use them (or why you chose to stay back out of them).
Click to expand...

I'm just now also just starting to use scenes. Can someone explain about #4 in the quote above in some detail? Is there a thread somewhere that explains this very thing. The manual and wiki is not getting through my thick skull. This would solve an issue for me. I'm trying to set up what is for me a fairly complicated preset. I will be using two amps in the preset. One is just for a solo and the other has to cover four different tones, each in it's own scene that range from clean to fairly crunchy. This has been a five preset song using three amps and various effects. I've got the effects worked out throughout the scenes. I would need to set up scene controllers for the one amp to accomplish this but I haven't been able to make it work.

I was thrilled to see your post last night. Been trying to make it work since but I'm not gettin' it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom