Questions about Re-Amping for those who have...

MetalERock

MetalERock

Member
Hey everyone! So, my friend and I are recording our new album. We are finally about 98% done with rhythm guitars at least for now. We have have been going DI into an Avalon 737SP and for now just using plugins for tones so we don't have to commit to any one tone or tones before we start mixing. Our plan is to re-amp at least all the rhythm guitars and some of the other tracks with my Axe-Fx II. Some stuff we might just end up leaving as plugins like weird background ambient guitar stuff that is more buried in the mix....we don't really want to deal with having to re-amp every single thing, but at least the main guitar tracks.

We started doing some test re-amping the other night, but for some reason the tone seems to be a bit more gainy sounding then when I am just playing guitar into the Axe-Fx and using my presets. We sent the clean signal out of my friends MOTU interface and back into the front of the Axe-Fx using an XLR cable with a 1/4" TS converter on the end of the XLR cable, because this is all we have for now. My friends MOTU HD192 only has XLR outputs and no 1/4" outputs. I adjusted the IO settings in the Axe-Fx so that way the signal would only occasionally hit the red like how you are supposed to set it up for regular guitar playing, but the signal for some reason seems to be a bit hot. The tone of the patches just seems a bit like too much gain...even if I go into my patches and dial the gain on the amp way way back it still seems kind of hot.

Is there something different we should be doing here? Any advice from people who have experience with this would be great! We are not going to re-amp SPDIF or AES, because then we can only use 48kHz sample rate and all our tracks are 88kHz so we are just sticking with re-amping analog.

Also, if you are interested in checking out our stuff all our music is free to download here seesdownload.com | art cures all
 
either turn down the signal from the source...
or drop the input level in the Axe: I/O - Input
 
Well even with the Axe-Fx not hitting the red it still seems hot. Is this because the signal from the interface is hotter than a typical signal out of a guitar? I'm just wondering if we need to bother buying a re-amp box? So, exactly how much level should we have in terms of the amount of signal we see on the Axe's input? because we want to do it all the same for every track.
 
Perhaps your DI signal is getting compressed somehow? The input meter on the Axe will show you how loud the peaks are, and you may indeed have that set the same as when you normally play directly into it, but if the DI track has been compressed, the softer sounds will now be louder, thus a more saturated, "gain-y" tone.

Sometimes when reamping, I forget that I have a multiband compressor or limiter placed on the Master Out for the session, which throws the reamping process out of whack.
 
Poparad said:
Perhaps your DI signal is getting compressed somehow? The input meter on the Axe will show you how loud the peaks are, and you may indeed have that set the same as when you normally play directly into it, but if the DI track has been compressed, the softer sounds will now be louder, thus a more saturated, "gain-y" tone.

Sometimes when reamping, I forget that I have a multiband compressor or limiter placed on the Master Out for the session, which throws the reamping process out of whack.
Click to expand...

Wow I didn't even think about that for some reason, but if we just send one channel out of the interface with no plugins on that channel the master bus would still affect that? I would think we would have to be sending the main out to it for that to be the case if there is a master bus comp or limit on the mix?
 
MetalERock said:
Wow I didn't even think about that for some reason, but if we just send one channel out of the interface with no plugins on that channel the master bus would still affect that? I would think we would have to be sending the main out to it for that to be the case if there is a master bus comp or limit on the mix?
Click to expand...

It does depend on how you route it. I use my Axe as my interfact for Pro Tools, so reamping always involves running through the master out. If you have a setup where you can send directly from that track out through an interface, then out of that physically into the Axe, then I suppose it wouldn't effect it. However, the more gear you run through, with more points of gain staging, the more difficult it is to get exactly the right level without any added influence.
 
Poparad said:
It does depend on how you route it. I use my Axe as my interfact for Pro Tools, so reamping always involves running through the master out. If you have a setup where you can send directly from that track out through an interface, then out of that physically into the Axe, then I suppose it wouldn't effect it. However, the more gear you run through, with more points of gain staging, the more difficult it is to get exactly the right level without any added influence.
Click to expand...

So...my big question is do I need a REAMP DI box? Cause my friend says the track being sent out is clean and before the master output. I'm thinking, because it's probably a balanced XLR out that the signal is just gonna be too hot regardless.
 
A balanced XLR is typically about +4db... guitar level signals are MUCH lower. This is a possible area for attention.

I use RME Firefaces instead of the MOTU stuff, but I do reamp successfully using a Radial JDV going in (DI out goes to input 1 on my interface - dry) and I record it as such.

My output path is similar - I take an output from the Fireface and run the XLR into a Radial X-Amp. Then I take the 1/4" guitar signal out of that and run it into the front of the Axe.

Reamping nirvana, no noise, artifacts, etc.

There are others that have done the whole process using the USB interface successfully. I recommend you search for those as well. There are limitations there though:

- You must record at 48Khz, or your DAW must be able to resample on the fly
- You will have to deal with lower recording levels - the USB signal delivered jut doesn't come in that 'hot'.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
It isn't really about about signal level. Merely turning down the level isn't the same thing as re-amping. A re-amp box converts line level to high impedance suitable for a pedal or amp. If you are going into the analog realm I highly recommend one. If you can handle some very basic DIY you can build an excellent passive DI for $45 with this kit. LINE2AMP Re-Amplifier Full Kit

Otherwise the obvious question is why not use the Axe-FX II USB reamp function (unless you are on a mac like me where it doesn't work properly still)?

You can also use the AES/EBU I/O option with the setup you described.
 
You can calibrate your DAW output level like this:
- create a preset that has no blocks - just route input to output with shunts (NO AMP! We want zero compression)
- (track 1) plug your guitar into the Axe and record a track of that boring squeaky clean sound from the Axe output
- (track 2) plug your guitar into the DI->Avalon and record the same thing. This will probably have a different recorded level.
- (track 3) reamp the DI track via the same Axe preset
- now we have three tracks. Mute the DI track(2) and pan the Axe track(1) and reamped track(3) left & right.
- In the DAW mixer set the Axe track(1) fader at 0.
- tweak the reamped track(3) fader to match the volume of the Axe track by listening and looking at the DAW meters.
- Reamped track(3) fader value now shows the level difference. This is exactly how many dBs boost or cut you need to apply in your reamping output track to match the guitar level.

Also, make sure that your Axe input configuration and the first block that has an "input select" parameter are set like you want them. You might get an unwanted gain boost if your Axe is set to stereo input and the DAW is sending signal to both L & R inputs and you have a block configured to L+R sum.
 
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my reamping setup is this

DAW --firewire--> MIXER/AI --mixer aux:send guitar cable --> RedEye -- guitar cable --> AXE: instr in

the RedEye is a reamp box to match the impedance of the mixer's aux send to the instr in of the AXE
essentially this makes the AXE think it's got a guitar jacked into it rather than an output from a mixer

with the RedEye in the signal patth you'll lose a little level and extreme top end...
but this is easy to put back from the channel-strip on the mixer through which the dry guitar passes..
 
Thanks for all the help! Like I said before we are not going to be using USB or AES for reamping. USB is pretty meh on the Mac's and we want to keep all our projects at 88kHz and not have to drop everything to 48kHz sample rate.

I think we are just going to have to bite the bullet and get a Reamp DI box at some point. At least it will come in handy if I ever decide I want to try reamping some of my tube heads.
 
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