Question for P&W folks...

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guitarzan_josh

Member
Would you refuse to play if you couldn't use your fractal gear? Worship Leader now wants to share a pedalboard into a Vox to help with "consistency" between services. Its a killer setup with DD-500, nice verbs and drives BUT... its not mine. I'm torn. There is no way they could get a better sound than whats coming out of my FM3 because they don't want the Vox cranked at all. I provide NO stage volume. I would think its a church's dream, no? Just curious how many would pass on playing going forward.
 
As a music director for a church and after several years of seeing the vast difference in guitar player's gear and ability to set it up, I can see where the Worship Leader is coming from. P&W has basically become its own genre and very guitar tone specific.

If you're new to the team, use what they ask you to use and work on having conversations with the Worship Leader or band leader to discuss your gear, eventually getting into specifics about the amps and effects you use for practice. Most WL's know about Line 6 and the Helix but very few are even aware the Fractal Audio even exists.

Possibly the best way to approach it, after a discussion with the WL, would be before a rehearsal. Explain that all you need is 10 minutes, a mic line and one song to show what the FM3 can do. Your willingness to come in early, not taking time away from the team, would speak volumes to me.
 
Just shut up and play. Don't be a take your ball and go home kind of guy.

Your opinion is more valuable if someone seeks it out. If you foist it upon people unsolicited, you make its value zero.
 
The intent is a little different in P&W, so I’d just roll with it. There’s likely not a more “not about me” playing situation, really. Think about it differently.

Considering, however, the reasoning given you might demonstrate how an Axe Fx and two FC6s could be the ultimate zero-stage volume, 100% consistent from service to service option. Then add a third line in the grid and cover the bass, too!
 
JoKeR III said:
As a music director for a church and after several years of seeing the vast difference in guitar player's gear and ability to set it up, I can see where the Worship Leader is coming from. P&W has basically become its own genre and very guitar tone specific.

If you're new to the team, use what they ask you to use and work on having conversations with the Worship Leader or band leader to discuss your gear, eventually getting into specifics about the amps and effects you use for practice. Most WL's know about Line 6 and the Helix but very few are even aware the Fractal Audio even exists.

Possibly the best way to approach it, after a discussion with the WL, would be before a rehearsal. Explain that all you need is 10 minutes, a mic line and one song to show what the FM3 can do. Your willingness to come in early, not taking time away from the team, would speak volumes to me.
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electronpirate said:
Show them what you have to offer.

They'll buy one later.
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Thats the thing. I've been playing there for over a decade and using fractal gear. I'm one of about 6 or so in a rotation. Worship Leader has been there maybe 6 months??? Just seems like a strange decision.
 
I used to attend a church in which the keyboard player was the worship leader & lead singer. It was so obvious he was trying to be the "standout" in the band, and it was quite unnerving. Always with the fast runs/fills, and a "Look at what I can do" way of playing (performing.) (Not saying this is you.)

By way of comparison, the assistant leader played acoustic and also sang, yet when he led worship, his style was completely different, with a profound reverence that literally came through in his playing. When he led, it was moving, to the point of having no trouble remembering Who it is that the congregation was giving worship to, through song and music.

If you're truly there for your faith, then remember, "He who humbles himself will be exalted," and leave it in God's hands.
 
guitarzan_josh said:
Thats the thing. I've been playing there for over a decade and using fractal gear. I'm one of about 6 or so in a rotation. Worship Leader has been there maybe 6 months??? Just seems like a strange decision.
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In that case, not knowing what the Worship Leader has been tasked with and their end goal, it's difficult to really know their why. I've been through 6 different WL transitions over the past 18 years, 3 in the last 5 years, and some were easier than others. Personality conflicts, the WL feeling threatened by those who have been on the team longer, not understanding or misinterpreting the church's mission statement and goal for Sunday mornings as well as the level of expectation for excellence can create a lot of misunderstandings resulting in misconceptions leading to poor attitudes and resentment.

Really the only thing you can do is meet with the WL and hear directly what their heart and vision is. Get together over coffee and take the time to get to know them and discuss your background. It may take a few conversations for each of you learn how the other thinks and your philosophies on Worship and guitar tone. Again, offer possible times outside of the team's normal rehearsal schedule to show the WL what your gear sounds like. Provide your own cables to run from the current rig to yours, not having to move any of their rig. Make it very easy to implement your gear.

At the end of the day, whether you agree with the final decision or not, this current WL is there for a reason and if you are still feeling that the church you're currently serving at is where you've been called to serve, it's up to you to follow what your leader asks of you. Pray about it and truly seek to know where you're supposed to be, don't make an emotional decision.

I've been through enough of the "my way or the highway" leaders to know it's not easy at times. I had one tell me they would try to make me mad just to see if they could. I've had dozens of conversations with my wife wondering if we're supposed to be moving on. After each conversation and praying about it, God's confirmed that we are where we're supposed to be. I'm 55 years old and have served at the same church for almost 20 years, been part time staff for the last 4. I know that the day is coming that it will be time to move on or simply step down but until then, I will continue to serve my leaders to the best of my ability because at the end of the day, we're talking about affecting people's eternal lives.
 
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I've been on both sides of this. I've been the youngish leader coming in and changing the band from piano based to guitar based. My 55 year old self looks back and shudders over some of the insensitive things I said and did in my zeal to "modernize" the worship team. I've been the leader that stepped down after many years of service having to watch the new leader dismantle much of the music ministry to make it more "modern." And I've been the sound guy (at a different church) that watched a very talented guitarist walk out of a rehearsal and quit the team because the tech leader insisted that his amp be on an angled stand instead of flat on the floor. And I watched him sit in the congregation week after week not using his talent.

JoKeR gave some great advice. Definitely sit down with the new WL and share your heart and your struggle. Do it face to face. It's important for him/her to understand the impact of their decision (I mean how it's affecting you, NOT as a threat), and it's important for you to hear their reasoning and heart.

These days I try to relax and let God be God and leaders be leaders. I am there to serve and make their life as easy as possible. Sometimes that means going along with less than optimal (in my opinion) decisions. But I certainly understand how hard it is to consider stepping backwards in guitar tone. Maybe you are being led to run sound instead... I kid. Maybe try the new setup for a few months and see how it goes. One thing I know, give any decision time and prayer and eventually you will know what to do. If you don't know, wait and keep serving. If you reach a point where it bugs you too much, maybe God is moving you into a different ministry after all.

One last thing - and I need to remind myself of this all the time - we don't do what we do to worship Tone. Keep first things first.
 
I'll add my agreement to what Joker and others have said. I can definitely see why this would bother you. They are asking you to downgrade your tone and playing experience by confining you to equipment that is ill suited to the application. However, you are there to serve and sometimes that means doing what is asked of you even if you know the results will not be as good as if it were done your way. Hopefully in time you'll be able to develop a rapport with the new WL. Until then, serve with humility and do the best job you can within the parameters dictated. Being agreeable will go a long way towards getting the new WL to seriously consider your suggestions down the line.
 
Hate to be a 'nudge', but I still see a WL who is focused on the process, not the outcome.

It's worth the conversation over coffee. How you've worked hard to craft a tone that reflects your faith. Walk them through it, and all it has to offer. As all it will take is one EL84 blown at the wrong time will change his mind.
 
I would try to find out more what their goal is and understand if sharing the board would help that or not. For me I would just state that I've never gelled with pedals/amps as they are not consistent in how they sound when I play through them. And how I sound while playing affects how I play. Thus, if I'm spending the entire service not liking how I sound while playing through the amp, then I'm not serving the music very well. And also it would be tough to practice learning all of the songs and some of these have interesting effects that I can only do on the fractal by avoiding tapping 10 pedals at once. How do you practice that at home on different gear than what you will be playing on during service?
 
I'd dig deeper. Sounds to me like there's some other thinly veiled issue in play here.
 
Chad Beattie said:
And also it would be tough to practice learning all of the songs and some of these have interesting effects that I can only do on the fractal by avoiding tapping 10 pedals at once. How do you practice that at home on different gear than what you will be playing on during service?
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That's a really good point. Possibly hypothetical, but good nonetheless.
 
At our church, the music pastor was more than happy to get rid of amps on the stage in trade
for better quality tones, simplified set up week to week venue to venue!

If your worship leader wants consistency, they should really consider a Fractal Audio solution.
One of the best purchases made!

We currently have 2 AX8's and a few other players have the 3 and 2 FM3's :)
 
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