Query re. loudness of Art SLA-2

[Stringtheorist]

Can someone clear this up for me?

The SLA-2 in normal stereo operation is rated at 200W per channel. I am aware that in terms of volume this is only a few decibels louder than my 100W amp would be at full tilt. However, I need the Art's volume control up around half way to simulate the output I get from my amp on volume 1-2! (I have my Axe FX output level at 3 o' clock. Maybe my patch levels are too quiet.) Anyway, the impression I get is that the Art isn't as "loud" as a 100W amp (although I haven't tried to play it flat out with all the levels up). I guess my question is: Is the Art's "loudness" equivalent to a valve amp on a per wattage basis? And is the volume control likely to have the same taper to a valve amp or a more linear one?

 

[Dutch]

Tube amps are reputed to have more dBs per Watt than SS. What the conversion rate would be depends on the amps. I think 1:3 or 4 is usual. Tube amps compress rather more elegantly than SS, so-called soft clipping. That's why distortion levels can be exponentially higher on a tube amp before you actually hear them also and published THD values are so different. You can hear a SS clip at THDs of 1% and think a tube amps is clean at 10%. Not sure of the actual numbers, it's been a while.
I would believe in an instant that the taper of the volume is different, whether that's caused by the pot or the electronics surrounding it is not my field of expertise, but my experience is that many amps will go from 0 to 90 in one click and take the rest to get to 100.

Bottom line is: Will it go loud enough. If it does, ignore the settings and enjoy!

 

[Stringtheorist]

Thanks. I'm just visualizing pushing the volume all the way up at a gig and then discovering that my presets are too quiet. :/

 

[jerotas]

Thanks. I'm just visualizing pushing the volume all the way up at a gig and then discovering that my presets are too quiet. :/

Not likely to happen if you get the SLA-2. It gets very very loud. Not as loud as my Vetta did, but that was just an obscene & unneccesary volume. I've played 4 gigs so far with the SLA-2 and Axe-FX, and never turned up past 1/2 way. Definitely wear some earplugs.

I would say turn up the loudest patch (in the output block) that you'll be using at a gig until the "overload" light come on if you pick very hard, then turn it down 1 db at a time until the light doesn't come on anymore (if you use hi-gain, do some very low palm mutes as they tend to be loudest internally). Then keep track of how much you had to turn it up, and incease the rest of your gig patches by that amount (assuming they're already balanced to each other volume-wise). Then you'll get the most out of the SLA-2 volume-wise.

 

[Ventanaman]

Thanks. I'm just visualizing pushing the volume all the way up at a gig and then discovering that my presets are too quiet. :/

Go to the utilities page that has the output level meter .. and play some chords as hard as you can play. I have my output levels for both 1 & 2 at about 90% of maximum to leave a little headroom.

If I then set my SLA-2 and the output level control on the front of the Axe, it gets "shake the walls" loud when they are both at about 3 o'clock. And I am running bridged into a 150W ported 2x12. I can't imaging needing anything louder without PA support.

Check you patches ... they are probably too quiet.

 

[Sixstring]

Can someone clear this up for me?

The SLA-2 in normal stereo operation is rated at 200W per channel. I am aware that in terms of volume this is only a few decibels louder than my 100W amp would be at full tilt. However, I need the Art's volume control up around half way to simulate the output I get from my amp on volume 1-2! (I have my Axe FX output level at 3 o' clock. Maybe my patch levels are too quiet.) Anyway, the impression I get is that the Art isn't as "loud" as a 100W amp (although I haven't tried to play it flat out with all the levels up). I guess my question is: Is the Art's "loudness" equivalent to a valve amp on a per wattage basis? And is the volume control likely to have the same taper to a valve amp or a more linear one?

I run the SLA wide open to achive max head room and adjust the levels in the Axe so the claen's and distortions are balanced between patches. If you adjust the Axe's output accordingly you should be fine. I have never needed to turn things up to the point of throughing the amp into a cliping situation or Speaker destruction to get things loud enough to be herd over a hard hitting drummer and I'm running 16 ohm cabs.

 

[jerotas]

I run the SLA wide open to achive max head room and adjust the levels in the Axe so the claen's and distortions are balanced between patches. If you adjust the Axe's output accordingly you should be fine. I have never needed to turn things up to the point of throughing the amp into a cliping situation or Speaker destruction to get things loud enough to be herd over a hard hitting drummer and I'm running 16 ohm cabs.

Funny, I instead run the SLA-2 at 25-50% (at home) when practicing so that the output of the Axe-Fx won't be really low. Because when the output is really low, it tends to be uneven between left and right speaker (around 6db). Live, I run the SLA-2 wide open though. 16 ohm cabs? Don't think I've ever seen one of those.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

The SLA-2 in normal stereo operation is rated at 200W per channel. I am aware that in terms of volume this is only a few decibels louder than my 100W amp would be at full tilt.

Everything else being equal, doubling power will produce a 3dB increase in volume.

However, I need the Art's volume control up around half way to simulate the output I get from my amp on volume 1-2!

The control setting that is required to get a particular volume has nothing to do with output power and everything to do with voltage gain. They are two completely independent quantities. Guitar amps are designed to amplify the relatively weak signals from passive guitar pickups. Power amps are designed to amplify the much stronger signals coming from active devices with line level outputs and consequently have much less voltage gain than guitar amps. This has nothing to do with maximum power.

Anyway, the impression I get is that the Art isn't as "loud" as a 100W amp

So far, your impression is not based on a comparison of both amps operating at maximum power.

I guess my question is: Is the Art's "loudness" equivalent to a valve amp on a per wattage basis?

The answer is "probably not," but it is not because of some mythical difference between "tube watts" and "solid state watts." Amplifier maximum power ratings represent the signal level beyond which a specified distortion level is exceeded. As they are pushed to their limits, tube amps make a relatively gradual transition into distortion and saturation, and they can be driven to very high levels of distortion and still sound musical. Even when producing "clean" sounds, a typical tube type guitar amp can be producing several percent total harmonic distortion. Therefore, the "maximum power rating" of a tube amp tends to be very conservative.

OTOH, most solid state amps make a much more abrupt transition into distortion. The difference between the 1% THD and 10% THD power levels in an ss amp can be quite small. Adding to that, the sound quality of a solid state amp driven into saturation is highly objectionable to most listeners. A "10 watt" tube amp may be able to produce more than 20 watts and still sound pleasant, whereas a 10 watt solid state amp will typically go into hard clip if you try to get a little more than its rated 10 watts.

 

[Sixstring]

I run the SLA wide open to achive max head room and adjust the levels in the Axe so the claen's and distortions are balanced between patches. If you adjust the Axe's output accordingly you should be fine. I have never needed to turn things up to the point of throughing the amp into a cliping situation or Speaker destruction to get things loud enough to be herd over a hard hitting drummer and I'm running 16 ohm cabs.

Funny, I instead run the SLA-2 at 25-50% (at home) when practicing so that the output of the Axe-Fx won't be really low. Because when the output is really low, it tends to be uneven between left and right speaker (around 6db). Live, I run the SLA-2 wide open though. 16 ohm cabs? Don't think I've ever seen one of those.

Thats weird, I haven't had problems like that unless I run the enhancer in the signal chain. Then it sounds like it's unbalenced but that's inherent of the effect depending on how wide you run it and at a lower volumes it will sound more pronounced.

For my setup I run the output knob on the Axe anywhere between 8 o'clock to Noon for a practious to full on ear bleed volume. I have run the same experment with my 100 watt tube head and I get the same max volume that I can tolerate at 10:00 o'clock on the master. Anything more than that is unusable unless your playing a stadium or micing in an Iso booth. As to never seeing a 16 ohm cab, you were just beeing sarcastic right?

 

[jerotas]

Thats weird, I haven't had problems like that unless I run the enhancer in the signal chain. Then it sounds like it's unbalenced but that's inherent of the effect depending on how wide you run it and at a lower volumes it will sound more pronounced.

I had a thread about the signal difference between left and right recently. It's especially pronounced at low output volumes, and occurs even on a patch with zero effects (all bypassed). Many others confirmed the findings. Cliff said it's not likely to be fixed, although I forget the exact reason for the problem (it's technical). And no, I don't believe I've ever seen 16 ohm cabs. Home stereo equipment yes.

 

[joegold]

Can someone clear this up for me?

The SLA-2 in normal stereo operation is rated at 200W per channel. I am aware that in terms of volume this is only a few decibels louder than my 100W amp would be at full tilt. However, I need the Art's volume control up around half way to simulate the output I get from my amp on volume 1-2! (I have my Axe FX output level at 3 o' clock. Maybe my patch levels are too quiet.) Anyway, the impression I get is that the Art isn't as "loud" as a 100W amp (although I haven't tried to play it flat out with all the levels up). I guess my question is: Is the Art's "loudness" equivalent to a valve amp on a per wattage basis? And is the volume control likely to have the same taper to a valve amp or a more linear one?

Doesn't seem like any of that really matters much.
The only question you should be asking yourself is: "Is the SLA2 loud enough for my needs?"
I can't imagine that it wouldn't be sufficiently loud for *anybody*.
So if it's not loud enough for you then there might be a problem somewhere in your rig.

The first thing to try is to use the XLR hookup option rather than the 1/4" hookup.
XLR is +6dB louder.
If it's still not loud enough then you might try using more speakers and run them at 4 ohms per side.

 

[jerotas]

Can someone clear this up for me?

The SLA-2 in normal stereo operation is rated at 200W per channel. I am aware that in terms of volume this is only a few decibels louder than my 100W amp would be at full tilt. However, I need the Art's volume control up around half way to simulate the output I get from my amp on volume 1-2! (I have my Axe FX output level at 3 o' clock. Maybe my patch levels are too quiet.) Anyway, the impression I get is that the Art isn't as "loud" as a 100W amp (although I haven't tried to play it flat out with all the levels up). I guess my question is: Is the Art's "loudness" equivalent to a valve amp on a per wattage basis? And is the volume control likely to have the same taper to a valve amp or a more linear one?

Doesn't seem like any of that really matters much.
The only question you should be asking yourself is: "Is the SLA2 loud enough for my needs?"
I can't imagine that it wouldn't be sufficiently loud for *anybody*.
So if it's not loud enough for you then there might be a problem somewhere in your rig.

The first thing to try is to use the XLR hookup option rather than the 1/4" hookup.
XLR is +6dB louder.
If it's still not loud enough then you might try using more speakers and run them at 4 ohms per side.

What I do if it isn't loud enough....is prop up my speakers on chairs or a small table so they're close to my ear level (I have short little 1x12's). That usually does the trick. Good to know about the XLR's....glad I switched to those.

 

[Sixstring]

Thats weird, I haven't had problems like that unless I run the enhancer in the signal chain. Then it sounds like it's unbalenced but that's inherent of the effect depending on how wide you run it and at a lower volumes it will sound more pronounced.

I had a thread about the signal difference between left and right recently. It's especially pronounced at low output volumes, and occurs even on a patch with zero effects (all bypassed). Many others confirmed the findings. Cliff said it's not likely to be fixed, although I forget the exact reason for the problem (it's technical). And no, I don't believe I've ever seen 16 ohm cabs. Home stereo equipment yes.

Interesting I missed that thred. Was it mentioned how low the output had to be for it to respond this way?.

Most traditional mono 412 guitar cabs are wirde in a series/parallel configuration to achive a 16 ohm load. This way you can stack two cabs togather run them in parallel and have an 8 ohm load.

 

[shred-o-holic]

Thats weird, I haven't had problems like that unless I run the enhancer in the signal chain. Then it sounds like it's unbalenced but that's inherent of the effect depending on how wide you run it and at a lower volumes it will sound more pronounced.

I had a thread about the signal difference between left and right recently. It's especially pronounced at low output volumes, and occurs even on a patch with zero effects (all bypassed). Many others confirmed the findings. Cliff said it's not likely to be fixed, although I forget the exact reason for the problem (it's technical). And no, I don't believe I've ever seen 16 ohm cabs. Home stereo equipment yes.

Interesting I missed that thred. Was it mentioned how low the output had to be for it to respond this way?.

Most traditional mono 412 guitar cabs are wirde in a series/parallel configuration to achive a 16 ohm load. This way you can stack two cabs togather run them in parallel and have an 8 ohm load.

Yeah but what if you want to run stereo and only have two 16 ohm cabs? Isn't that going to limit the output/volume of the SLA? My other question is that one of my cabs can be run at 4 ohms.......can you mismatch one side of the power amp and be OK? Therefore running 4 on one side and 16 on the other? That's one of the reasons that I'm scouting power amps with a higher output....I'm not changing cabs again for the life of me...

 

[godprobe]

Thats weird, I haven't had problems like that unless I run the enhancer in the signal chain. Then it sounds like it's unbalenced but that's inherent of the effect depending on how wide you run it and at a lower volumes it will sound more pronounced.

I had a thread about the signal difference between left and right recently. It's especially pronounced at low output volumes, and occurs even on a patch with zero effects (all bypassed). Many others confirmed the findings. Cliff said it's not likely to be fixed, although I forget the exact reason for the problem (it's technical). And no, I don't believe I've ever seen 16 ohm cabs. Home stereo equipment yes.

Interesting I missed that thred. Was it mentioned how low the output had to be for it to respond this way?.

Most traditional mono 412 guitar cabs are wirde in a series/parallel configuration to achive a 16 ohm load. This way you can stack two cabs togather run them in parallel and have an 8 ohm load.

Here's the test I did in the mentioned thread.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6083&p=68098#p68098

The difference is only significant at *very* low output volumes. I believe it is negligible in 90% of situations.