Q: After updating firmware is re-tonematching required?

A to the T

A to the T

Experienced
I have now started to save and export my presets incorporating the FW version in the preset name.
After a FW update, and then updating all presets I found that some didn't sound the same as before, specifically presets containing TM blocks.
So, as I started to suspect the TM block I decided to bypass the TM block then re-TM some of these presets using the same 48khz 16bit .wav files, guitar, and parameters as before.
What I noticed is that the "matched" waveform that is displayed in Axe-Edit was clearly different now. Substantially different. Then when I un-bypass the TM block and play along it sounds very close to the original source material again.

Do my findings seem logical or am I clearly missing something?
Anyone else experience this?

For now, I'll continue to organize my TM wave files and re-title them to include the preset number where i used them in TM.
 
From my understanding:

The TM block is based on an amp model... If that amp model changes, then settings will show different values. If it sounds completely different (and un appreciated,) then I would re-TM based off the new parameters.
 
electronpirate said:
From my understanding:

The TM block is based on an amp model... If that amp model changes, then settings will show different values. If it sounds completely different (and un appreciated,) then I would re-TM based off the new parameters.
Click to expand...

Wait, this may be misleading. My understanding is as follows:

Tone Match output can change if the new firmware has changed the tone match output processing.
Tone Matching identical inputs before and after firmware upgrade can sound different if the firmware has changed the tone match capture process.
Tone Match will sound different if it receives a different signal (obviously...) but this can happen if the firmware has changed the behavior of any of the blocks feeding TM. As of late, this has been the Amp modeling since that is what is changing from firmware to firmware.

So to be safe, keep track of your methods for every tone match that is important to you. If you have an existing recording, be sure to store it somewhere for future Tone Matching if necessary. If you are tone matching an amp live, make a recording of that and always TM off of it instead of the live playing (this applies to the both the reference and the local material). Also, be sure to export your TM to an IR and save it on your computer (not just on the Axe). I haven't lost TM block data recently but have in previous versions so having the IR is handy. Actually, I've been using exclusively IR's created from TM instead and usually remove the TM block from the chain.

With that said, I've done several tone matches of things I haven't been able to replicate with stock or 3rd party irs and lots of editing. Since maybe FW10, the matches seem to stay consistent and I haven't had to do them again. I DO have to make adjustments to the AMP block and some input EQ to compensate for changes in the FW. I've been bitten by the Wah block changes and less so with the Drive block but ultimately the TM/IR sounded fine after a few adjustments.
 
Hey

If you find cure to ,fix that different tone chance in tone match blocks. Please let us know that ,because I only use tone matching presets. I don't want nothing big chance in my tone ,that why I afraid to update new firmwares! And I will not do again those tone matching presets ,because it was very big process. And there will be always ,different whit tone if you tone match again presets!

A to the T said:
I have now started to save and export my presets incorporating the FW version in the preset name.
After a FW update, and then updating all presets I found that some didn't sound the same as before, specifically presets containing TM blocks.
So, as I started to suspect the TM block I decided to bypass the TM block then re-TM some of these presets using the same 48khz 16bit .wav files, guitar, and parameters as before.
What I noticed is that the "matched" waveform that is displayed in Axe-Edit was clearly different now. Substantially different. Then when I un-bypass the TM block and play along it sounds very close to the original source material again.

Do my findings seem logical or am I clearly missing something?
Anyone else experience this?

For now, I'll continue to organize my TM wave files and re-title them to include the preset number where i used them in TM.
Click to expand...
 
grape said:
So to be safe, keep track of your methods for every tone match that is important to you. If you have an existing recording, be sure to store it somewhere for future Tone Matching if necessary. If you are tone matching an amp live, make a recording of that and always TM off of it instead of the live playing (this applies to the both the reference and the local material). Also, be sure to export your TM to an IR and save it on your computer (not just on the Axe).
Click to expand...

Good idea and setting up a template in a DAW would make the process of re-TMA'ing from the recordings pretty easy. In addition to the recording for the Tone Match, second recordings with full guitar volume and guitar volume rolled off to where the amp cleans up would be helpful to set the gain on the Amp block for the new Tone Match.
 
electronpirate said:
From my understanding:

The TM block is based on an amp model... If that amp model changes, then settings will show different values. If it sounds completely different (and un appreciated,) then I would re-TM based off the new parameters.
Click to expand...

This.

The bigger the update, the more it changes the TM.
 
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