PRS John McLaughlin signature model

[Andy Eagle]

It was exclusive to PRS. Every single one of them is overpriced IMO. I sound just as good on my $700 Godin, or my $1800 Ibanez, or my $1300 Schecter. A PRS doesn't make anyone a better player and it doesn't sound any better than a good solid midrange guitar either. I have plenty of very expensive guitars - but they are just expensive because now they are vintage. They weren't expensive when I bought them.

Obviously plenty of peeps are willing to spend on a PRS. Bottom line if you are happy with your PRS purchases then good for you. I would always opt for buying 2 nice midrange guitars for the price of one PRS. And I could easily afford a PRS if I wanted one (even with a kid in college). So it isn't the money that bothers me. It is the missing value proposition.

Also, I was never much of a Kool-aid drinker!

It's art, it's not overpriced.
Paul Smith likes to try and build the best guitar he can build and make it from the best materials available with absolute precision. It is worth it but obviously not to you . It's not for you.
The best private stock guitars do sound amazing and yes better than all but fluke midrange guitars because they select the wood with abandon and use whatever they choose then take as long as it takes.

 

[Rex Rox]

It's art, it's not overpriced.
Paul Smith likes to try and build the best guitar he can build and make it from the best materials available with absolute precision. It is worth it but obviously not to you . It's not for you.
The best private stock guitars do sound amazing and yes better than all but fluke midrange guitars because they select the wood with abandon and use whatever they choose then take as long as it takes.

It's art to some and like all art their value is subjective. So I totally agree with you on the subjective value part. But sounds better? Are you playing it unplugged? Once a guitar is amplified (and run through effects, etc. as in the way most people use an electric guitar) then "sounds better" is also way more subjective than objective.

I was in a band about 7 or 8 years ago and the 2nd guitar player was a major PRS fanboi. He was constantly trying to get me to buy one. He lent me one of his very pretty PRS custom 24's for 2 weeks. I played it, I recorded with it, I did some comparisons by recording one of my Ibanez and also a partscaster that I built myself with high end components and custom wound pickups. I believe the total price of my partscaster was around $1600 when all was said and done. It would probably be more like $2k today.

I used the same signal chain on all the recordings (all using humbuckers). They had a mix of clean and overdriven tones just to make sure I was being fair. I gave him a thumb drive with the recordings on it and asked him to pick out the PRS. He took it home to give it a good listen. Next practice he picked my partscaster and when I told him he turned bright red. He actually got a little irritated since he had been going on and on about PRS superiority. At least I never had to hear that shtuff from him again which was a relief because he would never shut up about it.

Now if we were talking about acoustic guitars then I would absolutely agree with you. I have two Taylor Builders Edition acoustics ($6000+ each). They objectively kill any midrange acoustic I have ever played. Better tone, more sustain, better action, fretwork, necks, etc. If I was going to spend $15K on a guitar it would be something like this Taylor Masters Edition.


So I'll stand by my statement that PRS is the least value for your money if you know what to look for in a solid midrange electric guitar. Unless you are playing it unplugged.

 

[Andy Eagle]

It's art to some and like all art their value is subjective. So I totally agree with you on the subjective value part. But sounds better? Are you playing it unplugged? Once a guitar is amplified (and run through effects, etc. as in the way most people use an electric guitar) then "sounds better" is also way more subjective than objective.

I was in a band about 7 or 8 years ago and the 2nd guitar player was a major PRS fanboi. He was constantly trying to get me to buy one. He lent me one of his very pretty PRS custom 24's for 2 weeks. I played it, I recorded with it, I did some comparisons by recording one of my Ibanez and also a partscaster that I built myself with high end components and custom wound pickups. I believe the total price of my partscaster was around $1600 when all was said and done. It would probably be more like $2k today.

I used the same signal chain on all the recordings (all using humbuckers). They had a mix of clean and overdriven tones just to make sure I was being fair. I gave him a thumb drive with the recordings on it and asked him to pick out the PRS. He took it home to give it a good listen. Next practice he picked my partscaster and when I told him he turned bright red. He actually got a little irritated since he had been going on and on about PRS superiority. At least I never had to hear that shtuff from him again which was a relief because he would never shut up about it.

Now if we were talking about acoustic guitars then I would absolutely agree with you. I have two Taylor Builders Edition acoustics ($6000+ each). They objectively kill any midrange acoustic I have ever played. Better tone, more sustain, better action, fretwork, necks, etc. If I was going to spend $15K on a guitar it would be something like this Taylor Masters Edition.
View attachment 123778

So I'll stand by my statement that PRS is the least value for your money if you know what to look for in a solid midrange electric guitar. Unless you are playing it unplugged.

In a mix with a bunch of mid priced acoustics your Taylor will be lost too. Sit down with the PRS in to a single channel tube amp and the PRS will objectively sound and look all of it's money. It is about pleasing you not the audience .

 

[Vhalen50]

some people like brussel sprouts. some people dont.

 

[Rex Rox]

In a mix with a bunch of mid priced acoustics your Taylor will be lost too.

Which mid priced acoustics? I have a very nice Yamaha Compass Series (CPX-15W ~$800 when I bought it). It's a beautiful guitar sounds great. I bought it so my Taylors don't have to travel. But sound as good as those Taylor Builder Series? I will give you that it plays almost as nice (in terms of action, neck & frets), but sound wise it isn't nearly as dynamic, responsive or nuanced as those 2 Taylors.

I have another Taylor 612-C, with a 1-piece sitka spruce top and flamed maple back and sides, also a gorgeous guitar but less than half the price of my builder series Taylors. So it is really a midrange acoustic. It is about equal in quality to my Yamaha. They are about equal in sustain, tone, neck, etc. So no need to bring that one out either against that $800 Yamaha. It still isn't in the same league as those 2 builders.

In acoustics wood, build quality, construction in terms of bracing ... - all those have a big influence on sound and tone. Aha! There's that value proposition working in the opposite direction. Expensive acoustics are often worth every penny.

Sit down with the PRS in to a single channel tube amp and the PRS will objectively sound and look all of it's money. It is about pleasing you not the audience .

If you read my post above then as I said I had a Custom 24 living in my studio for a couple weeks. It was inferior straight into my amps than my partscaster. What pleases me most is versatility. The less I have to change guitars the better. Give me 1 or 2 versatile HSS or HSH super strats - if you are selective and know how to choose components you will end up with an amazingly versatile guitar that can do more straight into a tube amp for a fraction of Paul's prices.

Still don't like Kool-Aid! But I love me some Brussel Sprouts! Seared with duck fat and garlic, sprinkled with goat cheese and drizzled with balsamic glaze!

I'm hungry now ...

 

[Infuseguitar]

But I love me some Brussel Sprouts! Seared with duck fat and garlic, sprinkled with goat cheese and drizzled with balsamic glaze!

Yes please! Oh and could you please bring us a bottle of your finest Napa Vally Cab?

 

[Rex Rox]

Yes please! Oh and could you please bring us a bottle of your finest Napa Vally Cab?

I seriously did run out to the store to get brussel sprouts to accompany our dinner tonight after that post. One of my favorite veggie side dishes ever!

Sadly I don't have any Cab tonight, but I'm on your wavelength for sure! My wife did bring home a nice Malbec (she likes them better than Cabs), so that will have to do. Protein is fresh Copper River Salmon cedar planked on the grill. Gotta eat that Copper River stuff while it is fresh, the Rivers are thawed, and before the Grizzly's eat them all!

Salmon is the only fish that I like with red better than with white wine.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Which mid priced acoustics? I have a very nice Yamaha Compass Series (CPX-15W ~$800 when I bought it). It's a beautiful guitar sounds great. I bought it so my Taylors don't have to travel. But sound as good as those Taylor Builder Series? I will give you that it plays almost as nice (in terms of action, neck & frets), but sound wise it isn't nearly as dynamic, responsive or nuanced as those 2 Taylors.

I have another Taylor 612-C, with a 1-piece sitka spruce top and flamed maple back and sides, also a gorgeous guitar but less than half the price of my builder series Taylors. So it is really a midrange acoustic. It is about equal in quality to my Yamaha. They are about equal in sustain, tone, neck, etc. So no need to bring that one out either against that $800 Yamaha. It still isn't in the same league as those 2 builders.

In acoustics wood, build quality, construction in terms of bracing ... - all those have a big influence on sound and tone. Aha! There's that value proposition working in the opposite direction. Expensive acoustics are often worth every penny.



If you read my post above then as I said I had a Custom 24 living in my studio for a couple weeks. It was inferior straight into my amps than my partscaster. What pleases me most is versatility. The less I have to change guitars the better. Give me 1 or 2 versatile HSS or HSH super strats - if you are selective and know how to choose components you will end up with an amazingly versatile guitar that can do more straight into a tube amp for a fraction of Paul's prices.

Still don't like Kool-Aid! But I love me some Brussel Sprouts! Seared with duck fat and garlic, sprinkled with goat cheese and drizzled with balsamic glaze!

I'm hungry now ...

So you have never played a private stock and you seem to think workmanship and beautiful materials aren't worth anything. You really have been at the Kool-Aid, you have finished it.

 

[Chromatizm]

A PRS doesn't make anyone a better player

There is still a "nuance" (not really) that our hands are different.
Good luck trying to pull off Vai's stuff of SRV's guitar, for example. Probably not many will argue that shredding on Ibanez RG is much easier than on '75 Strat - Yngwie might but oh well.
If John says that PRS guitars are the best for him, why argue. Means working for him perfectly, and I'm sure he tried them all over the years. Makes him better player in terms of how easy and comfortable it is for him playing his lines at speed and getting the sound he needs, which is major part of the joy we have while playing.

Not defending or attacking PRS here, couldn't care less, I'm happy someone can afford it. Just commenting that there is always a guitar for everyone, which makes him "better" player - it's just a matter of finding one. PRS for some, Carvin or Strandberg for someone else.

 

[Rex Rox]

There is still a "nuance" (not really) that our hands are different.
Good luck trying to pull off Vai's stuff of SRV's guitar, for example. Probably not many will argue that shredding on Ibanez RG is much easier than on '75 Strat - Yngwie might but oh well.
If John says that PRS guitars are the best for him, why argue. Means working for him perfectly, and I'm sure he tried them all over the years. Makes him better player in terms of how easy and comfortable it is for him playing his lines at speed and getting the sound he needs, which is major part of the joy we have while playing.

Not defending or attacking PRS here, couldn't care less, I'm happy someone can afford it. Just commenting that there is always a guitar for everyone, which makes him "better" player - it's just a matter of finding one. PRS for some, Carvin or Strandberg for someone else.

I can pull off Vai stuff on any of my super strats. It helps if they have 24 frets for the highest squeaky stuff. Granted if you don't have a light touch then a bolt-on's neck's block on the body can be an issue for some - especially on say a Tele. But Ritchie Kotzen manages to shred just fine on one of those too. You have to be able to play up there without much thumb involvement for sure. Many can't.

But that's also not an issue if you pick components/bodies properly. If your Super Strat has a contoured heal (like mine ) - or even better if it isn't a bolt-on at all like my Gibson M3 - then not much of an issue That Gibson is still half the price of a PRS, and plays better (especially as a shredder) than the Custom 24 I had here for 2 weeks, it is also an HSH - so infinitely more versatile too!

I was never arguing PRS weren't great guitars - just that they are a lousy value proposition considering their cost to benefit ratio.

 

[∞Fractals]

Value is often personal and subjective; not a fixed, universal truth.

 

[Chromatizm]

Damn, pressed a wrong button and lost my answer! Hate when this happens!

Many can't.

Exactly my point. There is a reason so many guitar necks exist. We all are different, in the end.

But that's also not an issue if you pick components/bodies properly.

Exactly what happened to John with his PRS (according to him).

hat Gibson is still half the price of a PRS, and plays better (especially as a shredder) than the Custom 24 I had here for 2 weeks

I won't speak for John about this, but I know he tried a lot of Gibsons over the years. We are all different, in the end, but John, as a Godfather of all shredders, knows a thing or two about that If PRS works best for him, there is a reason for that, I'm sure!

I was never arguing PRS weren't great guitars - just that they are a lousy value proposition considering their cost to benefit ratio.

I'm not even going to get into this discussion - it's a free market. John is a legend above all else for me, so if I could buy it, I'd go for it without a second thought.
I, for one, is not happy with my Strandberg value proposition many consider amazing, so not going to argue about any of that!

 

[Rex Rox]

If PRS works best for him, there is a reason for that, I'm sure!

Could have a little to do with the sponsorship deal perhaps?

... if I could buy it, I'd go for it without a second thought.

I guess you are willing to pay 15K for an autograph? I have never been into autographs but to each their own! I had the opportunity to get autographs from Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford, Adrien Belew, and Tony Levin.

Long story, but I settled for the praise they gave us instead of an autograph.

 

[Rex Rox]

Value is often personal and subjective; not a fixed, universal truth.

Exactly as I already stated in post #22 above.

 

[Rex Rox]

So you have never played a private stock and you seem to think workmanship and beautiful materials aren't worth anything. You really have been at the Kool-Aid, you have finished it.

When exactly did I say that I had never played a private stock? Back when the Guitar Center in Arvada, Co was actually a really great GC, I went in and tried one in their locked, high-end room. That was after our 2nd guitarist first joined the band and started the campaign to pressure me into buying a PRS. I was still sufficiently unimpressed. So he surmised it was because I didn't have enough time with it.

That is why he lent me his Custom 24 for 2 weeks. Yawn sums up my reaction to both the private stock and the custom 24 perfectly. I'm not in a band with him anymore - Covid ended that band. But we are still friends. He has come around more to my way of thinking now. He still has a couple of his PRS, but he told me he sold one of them to buy a solid midrange guitar with more versatility and some other gear for his studio.

Surprise! The guitar he bought is a midrange HSH super strat. Go figure.

Also, you never answered my question about which midrange acoustic would sound as good as my Builder Series Taylors. Is that because it is a winged unicorn? If not then I really would like to know what you suggest. My daughter's birthday is coming up and she wants a new acoustic. I was just going to get her another midrange Taylor. But if there is something better I should try I am willing to go play one.

Just not Breedlove - already tried them.

 

[Chromatizm]

I guess you are willing to pay 15K for an autograph?

For the piece of his legacy and as a "thank you", so to say I already have five items signed by John, was even able to give two of them to my friends Kept two vinyls and his educational DVD though!
Some people leave us something which money can't really buy. John was THE man for me since first I've heard "Friday night" (and Allan with "Heavy Machinery").

Could have a little to do with the sponsorship deal perhaps?

Maybe! Makes Paul the smartest guy among builders in this case IMO.
I'm sorry, I'm John's fanboi.

 

[Rex Rox]

I'm sorry, I'm John's fanboi.

No need for apologies! He will definitely go down as one the G.O.A.T 's for me too.

 

[Andy Eagle]

When exactly did I say that I had never played a private stock? Back when the Guitar Center in Arvada, Co was actually a really great GC, I went in and tried one in their locked, high-end room. That was after our 2nd guitarist first joined the band and started the campaign to pressure me into buying a PRS. I was still sufficiently unimpressed. So he surmised it was because I didn't have enough time with it.

That is why he lent me his Custom 24 for 2 weeks. Yawn sums up my reaction to both the private stock and the custom 24 perfectly. I'm not in a band with him anymore - Covid ended that band. But we are still friends. He has come around more to my way of thinking now. He still has a couple of his PRS, but he told me he sold one of them to buy a solid midrange guitar with more versatility and some other gear for his studio.

Surprise! The guitar he bought is a midrange HSH super strat. Go figure.

Also, you never answered my question about which midrange acoustic would sound as good as my Builder Series Taylors. Is that because it is a winged unicorn? If not then I really would like to know what you suggest. My daughter's birthday is coming up and she wants a new acoustic. I was just going to get her another midrange Taylor. But if there is something better I should try I am willing to go play one.

Just not Breedlove - already tried them.

With mid range acoustics you'r going to have to go and play as many as you can because the consistency of sound quality is not going to be there .