Problem dialing thrash tone out of a REAL cab in loud situations

antony71p

antony71p

Member
Hey there
To be quick I play in a tribute band Metallica and I am having trouble to dial a real thrash tone out of a REAL CAB when playing with the band in loud
I know Ax can nail it and i believe i am doing something wrong
I have a Gibson with EMGs 81/85, matrix gt1000fx and I use a cab with V30s at the rehearsals and sometimes my cab with G12T-75
Although I have tried different combinations of amp blocks the tone I get is somehow muddy and with a lot feedbacks
I want to ask if someone has a preset to share or can direct me, not generally, but with details, how to achieve a tone like master of puppets tone maybe, thick and punchy with not that high fizzs .....like ''butter cut'' if you know what i mean :D
I have seen metallica use Ax Fx at their rehearsals (dont know whats goin on with their live tones )
I am posting some presets i am struggling , if someone can check them out and tell me what to do or make any changes or post a new one i will be thankfull
I think it is crucial to have the same setup as i have so as we have the same reference
you might also see that i use a cab block but first i want the sound from the REAL cab to come out and after i will see whats goin on with the direct tone although i know the real power of Ax is for direct sounds and the IRs

''THRASH test'' i use scene 1.rythm 2.lead 3 .clean
''THRASH test 2'' i use scenes 1,2,3 rythm 4.lead 5 clean
''THRASH test 3'' i use scenes 1.rythm 2.lead 3 .clean
 

Attachments

  • THRASH test.syx
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  • THRASH test 2.syx
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  • THRASH test 3.syx
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Which firmware are you using? Also I have better luck with a power amp and cab than I do going straight to the PA.
 
Well fuck me If an amp isn't an amp? :D you can still use the tutorial! It shows that the jmp is a thrash monster though that Wasn't the intention with the video at all
 
I have sympathy with the OP I really struggled to make real cabs work, but now getting success. The key is to start from scratch, just an amp and then dial in the settings that work with your real cab, which involves things such as:

- reducing the high frequency cut off point down t about 8k in the speaker page (massively important!)
- Play around with depth and presence and bass, mid and treble. Sometimes reducing the mids to say 0.4 bring out a better bottom end.
- Try the depth dynamics function that can add a lot of low end balls
- Adjust the depth frequency

Try doing all this with the Engl Savage 1 or EVH 5150 iii amp blocks as I know these work great.

I am trying to figure out the best set up for using a different amp block for output to FOH with FRFR setting at the same time using output 1, compared to the real cab settings as the real sounds to bassy when used with an IR so its best to have a completely separate amp block in parallel. Im still working on perfecting this with sharing effects between the two blocks to keep CPU down.

There is a lack of good real cab presets out there to get ideas from, I came up with all this through trial and error. It sounds much better with quantum. Th real cab was a bit thin before.
I would post a preset but wil have to work out how to do that and am still tryin to perfect this myself so still not 100% perfect yet.
 
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jonhep said:
I have sympathy with the OP I really struggled to make real cabs work, but now getting success. The key is to start from scratch, just an amp and then dial in the settings that work with your real cab, which involves things such as:

- reducing the high frequency cut off point down t about 8k in the speaker page (massively important!)
- Play around with depth and presence and bass, mid and treble. Sometimes reducing the mids to say 0.4 bring out a better bottom end.
- Try the depth dynamics function that can add a lot of low end balls
- Adjust the depth frequency

Try doing all this with the Engl Savage 1 or EVH 5150 iii amp blocks as I know these work great.

I am trying to figure out the best set up for using a different amp block for output to FOH with FRFR setting at the same time using output 1, compared to the real cab settings as the real sounds to bassy when used with an IR so its best to have a completely separate amp block in parallel. Im still working on perfecting this with sharing effects between the two blocks to keep CPU down.

There is a lack of good real cab presets out there to get ideas from, I came up with all this through trial and error. It sounds much better with quantum. Th real cab was a bit thin before.
I would post a preset but wil have to work out how to do that and am still tryin to perfect this myself so still not 100% perfect yet.
Click to expand...

I'm going to try playing with the Depth dynamics and frequency on my rig - thanks. Questions about the other points though... maybe I'm misunderstanding?
- Doesnt a real cab restrict the frequencies by itself? E.g. no need to reduce High Freq in the speaker page? (unless using FRFR as that doesn't cut of the frequencies)
- Is that meant to be 0.4 for mids or do you mean 4? Isn't that one ultra scoop? I was told by others on here that it's very important to increase the mids when you are at volume..?

I should add that I'm using Matrix poweramp and Mesa 4x12 OS cab. The best result I've had so far has been to use the 5153 red amp, but only dropping that onto a patch and then tweaking a little. I've no cab block on the patch. Can't post the patch at the moment sorry but will in a few weeks if you haven't nailed it by then, as I'm away for a while
 
hi not sure why the high freq cut wirks but it seemed to for me. yes i mean 4. i normally prefer to increase mids but it depends on amp type and how much low end u want. will fit in a mix better without lowerin mids if u can make that work

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 
Ah 4 sounds better i thought you meant virtually no mid at all! I'll have a play with high freq cut when I'm next in studio, but from what people have said, it shouldn't really be needed as the guitar speakers limit the frequencies by design... if it works though, it works!

OP have you set the low res freq to suit your cab?
 
antony71p said:
its a preset for XL owners , unfortunately i have MARK II
Click to expand...

I'm sorry about that, I will try to take some screenshots of the different pages of the amp block and post those so you can re-create it yourself. The preset is pretty simple, just an amp block, fx-loop block and cab block
 
Ok, here are screenshots of the different blocks in the preset. I can only do 8 shots per post so ill do the rest in another post. This is the Input block and Amp block.


Input1.jpgAmp1.jpgAmp2.jpgAmp3.jpgAmp4.jpgAmp5.jpgAmp6.jpgAmp7.jpg
 
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