Probably idiotic question- How to get the most out of Dyna Cabs?

Lkdog

Lkdog

Power User
I played around with these last night. Really impressive GUI and creative idea that Fractal developed and I am sure it is a great enhancement if I knew WTF I was doing. LOL.:D

What is obvious basic initial way that people use this to get what they think is an enhanced FRFR experience?

I hear subtle differences when switching CABs and Mics (it all sounds good), but is there a process that experts suggest to get the most out of this?
Like typical suggested MIC placements and distance from CAB CAP for best amp in room sound, etc?

Thanks.
 
I don't know what the pros do but, once I select a cab, I, as basement hacker, like to put a dark mic on it in slot1 (Ribbon center panned) and move the dot around till I like the sound not worrying too much at that point if it sounds a tad dark. Then I put a bright mic in slot 2 (Dynamic1 Center panned - cap edge) and adjust the volume of that mic downward till I have the exact brightness/darkness I want (if it's too dark with the Dynamic mic volume all the way up then I probably need to pick a different cab).

As for the cab selection, I do it by eye/brain/ear - yes that right justears brigade! by eye/brain/ear lol! If I want thump I go 412, if I want more open sounding I go 212, and/or I select the cab based on what is typically paired to the amp as far as I've been able to surmise by general observation and drooling at the music store, and/or I select the cab based on what I know about the speaker it probably contains or its signature sound which I may know about. If I have no clue then I'll start just earsing to find the cab I want/like/need.

Seems to work for me. The totally awesome thing is - with FW 23 I don't have to worry about setting the IC which is now set automatically (yAAAA!) instead of manually based on mysterious difficult to know reference points.

And that method is 10X faster to do than before (2 X yAAAAA!)
 
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I don't bother trying to emulate any preconceived mic positions as such, i just literally prefer to use my ears but most of the positions i end up with are off axis to varying degrees and combos of the Ribbon and Dynamic 2.
 
The beauty of having a much smaller pool of options is that it is possible to try all of them this century. I’ve never miced a cab apart from looping a cable through an amp handle to dangle an SM57 vaguely near the speaker, so I had no idea. I just picked a cab, a 412 I think, and one by one (there’s only 4!) moved each mic around just to hear what that even does. Don’t worry about correct, just grab a mouse and play with the dot like a kid with a toy. You will pretty soon get a feel for what each mic sounds like and what you personally dig.
 
sprint said:
I don't know what the pros do but, once I select a cab, I, as basement hacker, like to put a dark mic on it in slot1 (Ribbon center panned) and move the dot around till I like the sound not worrying too much at that point if it sounds a tad dark. Then I put a bright mic in slot 2 (Dynamic1 Center panned - cap edge) and adjust the volume of that mic downward till I have the exact brightness/darkness I want (if it's too dark with the Dynamic mic volume all the way up then I probably need to pick a different cab).

As for the cab selection, I do it by eye/brain/ear - yes that right justears brigade! by eye/brain/ear lol! If I want thump I go 412, if I want more open sounding I go 212, and/or I select the cab based on what is typically paired to the amp as far as I've been able to surmise by general observation and drooling at the music store, and/or I select the cab based on what I know about the speaker it probably contains or its signature sound which I may know about. If I have no clue then I'll start just earsing to find the cab I want/like/need.

Seems to work for me. The totally awesome thing is - with FW 23 I don't have to worry about setting the IC which is now set automatically (yAAAA!) instead of manually based on mysterious difficult to know reference points.

And that method is 10X faster to do than before (2 X yAAAAA!)
Click to expand...
You are on FW23? You must have some serious connections, 😛
 
sprint said:
I don't know what the pros do but, once I select a cab, I, as basement hacker, like to put a dark mic on it in slot1 (Ribbon center panned) and move the dot around till I like the sound not worrying too much at that point if it sounds a tad dark. Then I put a bright mic in slot 2 (Dynamic1 Center panned - cap edge) and adjust the volume of that mic downward till I have the exact brightness/darkness I want (if it's too dark with the Dynamic mic volume all the way up then I probably need to pick a different cab).

As for the cab selection, I do it by eye/brain/ear - yes that right justears brigade! by eye/brain/ear lol! If I want thump I go 412, if I want more open sounding I go 212, and/or I select the cab based on what is typically paired to the amp as far as I've been able to surmise by general observation and drooling at the music store, and/or I select the cab based on what I know about the speaker it probably contains or its signature sound which I may know about. If I have no clue then I'll start just earsing to find the cab I want/like/need.

Seems to work for me. The totally awesome thing is - with FW 23 I don't have to worry about setting the IC which is now set automatically (yAAAA!) instead of manually based on mysterious difficult to know reference points.

And that method is 10X faster to do than before (2 X yAAAAA!)
Click to expand...
As someone who has had a few successes and a LOT of failures with micing cabs, I can say there's really no right or wrong. Develop a workflow that works for you because in the end, all that matters is your mic choices end up being exactly where they need to be in order to sound good. It's through the process of doing it that you learn your mics, you cab and the relationship of finished recorded sound to your gear and where you're putting things.
 
The obvious answer is to use your ears, I've miced thousands of guitar cabinet speakers in my life as a live sound engineer. No two speakers or cabinets sound the same and every mic has its own sound also. Sorry for stating the obvious for those in the know, but the closer to the center you place the mic on the dust cap, the brighter the sound, and as you move to the edge of the cone the darker the sound till it ends up being less than useable. The distance has the inverse effect, the closer the mic, the fatter it sounds, and the further away the mic is from the cabinet it will be clearer. This is known as the proximity effect which happens with cardioid and ribbon mics. Omni mics are not susceptible to the proximity effect. Another factor is room tone and leakage which we don't get in the digital world. And the room tone discussion can go on ad nauseum.

Another factor is a ribbon mic has a figure of eight polar pattern, which means that they pick up sound from both sides of the capsule direct and reflected and the back side of the capsule is brighter than the front. Also, there is an inherent low-end bump in a ribbon mics frequency response. The angle of the mic in relation to the speaker also plays a role in the sound. Is the mic at a 90-degree angle to the grill or slightly angled, I have often put the mic at a 90-degree angle to the speaker cone with great results. And in addition to that, no two musicians or engineers have the same ears and the same tone in their minds that they are looking to achieve. But as of yet, this option is not available in Dyna cab.

So basically experiment and do what sounds good to you, because that's basically who you need to please. Use the looper block, play a riff or some chords, press play, and tweak till you're happy with your tone because one person's sonic nirvana can be another's purgatory. Perfection might never be achieved, but you can get damn close if you apply yourself. Cheers, Perry, aka Techboy 57
 
The big thing here I think is to use the looper to leave both hands free. Also I recommend to use Axe-Edit over the front panel so you can more quickly and freely move mics. I think it's helpful to move mics in a sunray pattern, that is, if you have mic position that has some of the character you want, first try moving it in and out from the speaker in a radiating pattern, before moving to other positions.

I find that, for Fendery and Plexi type tones I like the Dynamic 1 (SM57) by itself, and for high gain I love the Dynamic 2 (SM7b) by itself. Also, if you want to get wild, I recommend playing around with two mics on the same cab (try two SM7s for one example, or either the condenser or ribbon plus three SM57), changing mic positions and levels on Axe-Edit while subtly changing alignment in the cab block on the front panel. That can also be completely incredible for what I think of as a more dimensional sound, smearing the top end, as I liked to put it, and kind of lending a greater sense of "grain" to a any gain you have. I don't have any better words for this, sorry haha. But to me it creates more of an amp in the room type sound, especially with a hair of speaker compression. Not as good for mixing, but unbelievable for practice.
 
State of Epicicity said:
The big thing here I think is to use the looper to leave both hands free. Also I recommend to use Axe-Edit over the front panel so you can more quickly and freely move mics. I think it's helpful to move mics in a sunray pattern, that is, if you have mic position that has some of the character you want, first try moving it in and out from the speaker in a radiating pattern, before moving to other positions.

I find that, for Fendery and Plexi type tones I like the Dynamic 1 (SM57) by itself, and for high gain I love the Dynamic 2 (SM7b) by itself. Also, if you want to get wild, I recommend playing around with two mics on the same cab (try two SM7s for one example, or either the condenser or ribbon plus three SM57), changing mic positions and levels on Axe-Edit while subtly changing alignment in the cab block on the front panel. That can also be completely incredible for what I think of as a more dimensional sound, smearing the top end, as I liked to put it, and kind of lending a greater sense of "grain" to a any gain you have. I don't have any better words for this, sorry haha. But to me it creates more of an amp in the room type sound, especially with a hair of speaker compression. Not as good for mixing, but unbelievable for practice.
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I try to use the looper as it makes total logical sense to do so when auditioning IRs, but strangely, when searching thru nuanced tones, I have to be playing directly - not sure why.
 
Previous to Dyna-cabs, I always used a 412 cab with a single 57 mic IR. Always worked for me in a live environment.
With Dyna-cabs, I'll use a "dynamic" option and move it around until I like it.
I'm mostly doing light rock to heavy rock, 80's rock and metal, some classic rock in a 4 or 5 piece setup, sometimes with keys. I never felt the need to mix in a ribbon or use a "mix" cab. Sure, it'll sound thinnish on your own but fits in a mix or with backing tracks when practicing.
I mean, 10 years ago I was running a 50 watt tube head with a 212 or 412 with a single 57 a little past the edge of the cone...
 
Techboy57 said:
The angle of the mic in relation to the speaker also plays a role in the sound. Is the mic at a 90-degree angle to the grill or slightly angled, I have often put the mic at a 90-degree angle to the speaker cone with great results. And in addition to that, no two musicians or engineers have the same ears and the same tone in their minds that they are looking to achieve. But as of yet, this option is not available in Dyna cab.
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This would mean an infinite amount of angles to be captured by the dynarobot, i guess...
 
md1234 said:
This would mean an infinite amount of angles to be captured by the dynarobot, i guess...
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The process of creating a Dyna-Cab is already longer than a regular IR. I suspect adding angles would make it a ridiculously long process, besides causing the file size to balloon, with fewer users caring about that added detail.
 
Generally speaking, a mic in the center position is more full range. Move the mic toward the edge and it will lose high end.
Moving the mic away from the speaker will lose some of the proximity effect, which is more bassier the closer to the speaker.
The Ribbon and Condenser will have more bottom end. The Dynamic 1 (sm57) will have the least bottom end and more nasally sounding.
The Dynamic 2 is sort of like the Dynamic 1 but with more bottom and a flatter response.
But, use your ears and just move the dots.
 
sprint said:
I try to use the looper as it makes total logical sense to do so when auditioning IRs, but strangely, when searching thru nuanced tones, I have to be playing directly - not sure why.
Click to expand...

I totally feel you on this. For me it depends on the type of tone I'm dialing for. If I'm going for one where my volume and tone knobs on the guitar might not be touched, something like a thrash extravaganza tone, the looper works great. But I'm going for a boosted Plexi with all sorts of nuance, dynamics, and varied flavor all coming from guitar knob positions, I'll just play, change the dials on the amp, play, etc. until it's right. But that's with a static IR. The Dyna-Cabs are sooo nuanced and awesome, at least in this period where I'm figuring out my favorite ways to do things, I get so sucked in to the exact right placement, and, if I'm mixing mics, relative levels and alignment, that there's just no way I could play and deal with all that at the same time haha.
 
md1234 said:
This would mean an infinite amount of angles to be captured by the dynarobot, i guess...
Click to expand...
Unfortunately yes, it would make things more complex, this is how I would work to get the best tone for my live setups. And it was a 2 man job one tech placing and moving the mic and the other listening to the Front of House to get the required tone. It wasn't easy but the results were worth it.
 
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