Preferred Method Clean to Distorted

P

PSea

Experienced
im going to build a preset for kryptonite by 3 doors down. i need to go clean to dirty. im thinking about it in three stages: starting clean, inducing distorted feedback and then the higher distortion power chords.

ive learned how to use the synth block to induce feedback and im now getting comfortable with scene controllers (especially as a means for creating gapless changes; LOVE IT).

im wondering how i should go about going from clean to distorted in somewhat of a smooth fashion. is there a preferred way? ie, am i better off using a pedal to increase amp gain? should i map a pedal to the drive block gain?

ideally, im envisioning starting clean, inducing the synth feedback and then switching to the power chords. im struggling to get my head around going from clean to the synth feedback which im guessing requires some gain to get the right effect.

any suggestions?
 
There's a few ways:
  • Use different amp channels (you have 4 per block) where one channel is a clean amp, and the others are variations of the same amp with different levels of gain.
  • Same as above but where each channel could be an entirely different amp.
  • Put one or more drive blocks in front of the amp block.
  • User the Input boost located in the amp's pre-amp tab to overdrive the amp. (this approach saves a drive block and CPU). You'll need to map the Input Boost to some control switch to activate it.

There's no right way to do this. If you're coming from the tube amp world, the mentally easiest would be to put a drive block in front of the amp just like you'd use a pedal. It'll work the same.

I would try each method to see what makes the most sense. However, of all of these approaches, I tend not to use different amp models when changing the amount of gain for what you are trying to achieve. Changing amps entirely can sound disjointed in a live situation.
 
Thanks, Lance. I agree. Good ideas. No wrong way.

Also, I'm trying to do this without gaps. So changing Amp channels is a last resort. The two amp option (both the same amps, but with different gain settings) might make sense w/ a mixer block (or would i use the M-Plex?) in between them. that would presumably allow me to slowly fade fr amp1 to amp2 but not entirely sure. haven't used this technique yet.
 
Yeah, that's another way. I'm just not sure the juice is worth the squeeze. Not that using two amps with a M-Plex is hard, but it's a lot easier to stick a drive block in front, tune to taste....done. I try to think of my FM9 as an amp....while it'll do these other things, often the straightforward approach is best.
 
For me, I use one amp channel for cleans and then a second amp channel with scene controllers to control the input trim. This way, each scene just get dirtier instead of introducing tonal changes by goofing with the amp gain.

My typical setup is:
1. Cleanish (I like a bit of grit on cleans)
2. Dirty Rhythm (lowered input trim)
3. Dirty Rhythm (input trim @ default 1.00)
4. Dirtier Lead (input trim @ 1.80 ish)
5. Lead (input trim around 2 and also a 2dB scene boost)
 
@Goonie ... interesting. I'll need to try that.

I put input trim on my performance as a quick way to compensate for moving between guitars (singles/hums). So, I'd be giving that up.
 
Lance Holland said:
@Goonie ... interesting. I'll need to try that.

I put input trim on my performance as a quick way to compensate for moving between guitars (singles/hums). So, I'd be giving that up.
Click to expand...

For SC to HB, I use a filter block with a 5dBish level boost.

I may have incorrectly stated my scenes.
I use 1-4 for HB tones. 5-8 for SC tones. On 5-8, my filter block is on to compensate. I rarely use 5-8 as I have one strat that barely gets any play.
But in any case, my scene 1/5 is clean and 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 use scene controller on input trim.
 
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Recently, I found out for my needs (rock/metal prog) that the "ods-100 ford pab" covers all the sounds I need...
So I am able to do a gapless switch also on the FM3!

So far I have:
  • clean-ish (gain + od at ~ 5) and use the guitar volume for different situations
  • low gain lead (clean-ish + overdrive in front)
  • overdrive (gain at ~ 7, od at ~ 6)
  • lead (gain at ~ 9, od at ~ 8)
scene controllers for everything... gain + od + definition + delay input
 
PSea said:
im wondering how i should go about going from clean to distorted in somewhat of a smooth fashion. is there a preferred way?
Click to expand...
For me it's a expression pedal to a volume block right after the input, with max 10, min 3.
I really don't like the sound you get from guitar volume knob for most cases, you lose a lot of tone, and using volume block fixes that. Works perfectly for all shades between clean and slight over-the-top edge-of-breakup tones. Probably will not really work with high-gain.

I'm wondering if the "level" of the Input block does the same. I'm experimenting with it but seems like Volume block does it - differently? Even with much bigger range on the "level" of the input block I can't get the same result, and I would really like to save some CPU by removing Volume block.
 
The beauty of fractal is there are different ways to do most things and you can also combine these methods. For example, you could have different scenes for clean and dirty (using scene controllers if you need gapless) and then control amp input boost or drive block parameters, or volume block, or all of the above but only for your dirty scene) with an expression pedal.

I started out using an expression pedal to go from clean to mean (using several modifiers mapped to the pedal) and sometimes blending two amps using the same pedal but have since switched to using a single amp and 4 scenes for 4 levels of increasing dirt and my guitar volume knob within each scene. I could use scene controllers to keep it gapless but the gaps don't bother me too much and I will often use different cab channels (with same IRs but different mix levels) for the different scenes.
 
I'm not sure how I would approach that specific song...I'm familiar with it, but it's not really my style to play. I'm also not sure which part you're talking about playing. There's at least 4 guitar parts in the studio version (acoustic or maybe piezo, what sounds like direct or at least very clean, probably double-tracked heavy distortion, and lead). I'm probably wrong about the details, but there's at least 2 clean sounds and 2 or 3 dirty sounds that overlap. I have no idea what they do live....I thought they only had 2 guitarists. Maybe I'm making that up.

In general, though, I just use my pickup selector and guitar controls. It's just the way I've always done it....probably because I started playing on basic single-channel amps and was too cheap to buy drive pedals for a long time and too lazy to actually put together a pedalboard until a few years ago.

Yes, the sound gets darker when you turn the volume down. The way I deal with that is to start with the clean tone with the neck volume on ~3, set the amp bright enough for that wound and so it's just barely not breaking up....and things kind of just work out. Instead of the feeling like it's getting muffled as you turn down, it feels like it's cutting more as you turn up. Quick changes from clean to dirty are just flicking the pickup selector with the 2 sounds already set up.

At least, that's how it works for a Les Paul.

My strat's pickups are so wimpy that without changing the amp settings the clean sound is at like 7ish and an actual overdrive sound requires a pedal. But...that's fine. Lately, I just turn on a Chiron drive block when I plug in my strat and use the volume more like I would use the knobs on my LP. I still can't decide what I actually want the knobs on my strat to do.....missing the 4th knob irks me a lot more than before I got used to a LP.

I also have a TS, and I'll use that to boost the strat or either one (but not both) to boost humbuckers for an over-the-top sound.

Honestly, the more I've played with all the fancy things you can do in the Fractal, the more I like how incredibly well it does the simple things that I always come back to.
 
If you can manage with 2 amps + a drive block, you can use 2 completely different amp models and maintain seamless switching. There are some gapless switching threads on the forum that'll show you how. (I don't remember because the short gap rarely poses a problem for me, so I don't usually worry about it)
 
I use 4 scenes lowest to highest on the amps. Then I have amp boost and drives for variations on that. The gaps don’t bug me. Just hit it on time. No one is going to notice it in a mix.
 
I use a number of different approaches, depending on the desired result.

Some presets have two amp blocks and use a pair of VolPans running in opposite directions on the same Continuous Control pedal to switch which gets signal at the input - a trick that Cooper Carter shared a while back, which was a vast improvement over using the Mixer block after them, since the ZZZZ of the dirty amp comes through long before the rest of the tone, and the mid-mix sound is, frankly, awful as a result when using the Mixer. You have to play with the pot tapers on the VolPans to get the transition smooth. The result is complete freedom to poke at either amp individually. Generally, I have a couple channel toggle switches set up to channel switch the dirty amp (A/B and C/B), so that I get instant access to 3 different levels of dirty.

Some presets have a VolPan controlled by a Continuous Control pedal in front of an amp dialed in for the lead sound I want, and use the VolPan to clean it up.

Some presets use the Continous Control pedal to simultaneously tweak the Gain and Output Level of an amp (occasionally a tone control or two also) to go from clean to dirty.

Some presets combine these approaches to some extent.

Some presets use four Scenes to give me Clean and Dirty with or without lead boost (and selectable delay on the leads), using many of the above techniques with scene controllers instead of a Continuous Control pedal, or sometimes just switching the amp blocks on/off to switch tones.

Once in a blue moon, I uses Scenes the way they are likely meant to be used - to step through parts of the song. :D
 
Try using the Multiplexer and 2 different amp blocks, one clean/on distorted. I've had best luck doing it that way. There is no gapless switching with FM9, only work arounds to minimize it. The multiplexer is the best workaround.

If you need to switch between ultra clean and ultra heavy as fast as stepping on a Boss pedal, you have to either put a Boss pedal in the input output loops of the FM9 or get a Boss GT-1000. Then you need to apply work arounds to the GT-1000 to get tone that's in the neighborhood of the FM9.

Fractal products were built around the absolute best amp and cabinet modelling ever attempted. Boss GT products were built on the principle "all changes in tone have to feel exactly like stomping a Boss pedal". Boss GT units don't even need "scenes" because changing from one preset to another is insanely fast.

If Roland could license Fractals amp modeling technology even at the level it was during the Axe Fx II phase an incredible product could be born.
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
Once in a blue moon, I uses Scenes the way they are likely meant to be used - to step through parts of the song. :D
Click to expand...
Huh? I never made the connection but that does seem really efficient. Unless you are playing progressive or death metal where there might be 12 different scenes just in the first 2 minutes of the song.
 
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