Practical questions Helix to FM3

[Paulzx]

As I'm planning my move from my Helix Floor to an FM3, I wanted to understand a few things in advance.

I generally run my helix presets in an 8 snapshot mode, so basically I have 8 different scenes if you like that I can have ready, typically a dry, delay, chorus, boosted volume etc. Helix has the switches to do that, the fm3 only has three permanent switches without the extra foot controllers, so how do you guys set your scenes up?

Can you only have three scenes available on those foot switches, then cycle for the other scenes? Do most of you just make do with fewer switches and scenes because I think quite a few guys use the fm3 without the fc6 or 12.. or am I completely wrong and everyone with an fm3 bought one of those extra foot switch boards?

I realise to duplicate my helix snapshot layout I would at least need an fc6, but I'm interested in how you guys are running yours, soi can make a better judgement on what to expect.

In the signal chain, how many blocks can you use? Obviously DSP varies with effects, but generally speaking, my helix chain would typically be a volume boost assigned to a switch, a distortion pedal, a single amp, single IR, an eq, a delay, and a chorus, maybe a phaser or flanger too. I would normally throw a reverb in for a snapshot effect but I can live with a short delay instead of a reverb. Will the fm3 handle all that?

One thing I forgot above was wah.. has the fm3 got an auto wah? I have a wah block in my helix chain but there is no auto wah and the expression pedal with the wah blocks are not that great, but with Fractal I would want to address that if possible.

 

[Ugly Bunny]

Personally, I set up what's called "per preset" foot switches for every preset. This is because some presets/songs I may only need two scenes, so I set up all foot switches to toggle (no guesswork while I'm playing piano and singing).

But more fundamentally, you can effectively have all scenes on one footswitch if you like; just set it to "increment/decrement scene." You can also assign up to four scenes per switch by choosing two to toggle between using the tap function and two to toggle between using the hold function.

The footswitches on the Fractal gear are SUPER powerful and versatile.

I think the FM3 can handle the preset you describe, including the reverb. Of course, as you point out, the number of blocks and kind all affect the DSP usage. Now if you tried to use all those blocks AND THEN add a Virtual Capo, I think you might be overdoing it.

I've never used the autowah, but I'm sure it's got a great one. Plus, there are numerous ways you can set up an autowah outside of the actual effect.

My last piece of advice, if you're a professional gigging musician, would be to use something like OnSong on your iPad to automate preset & scene changes via MIDI, as well as turn on & bypass certain effects, or even adjust parameters. I do this; every song in my band's 200+ song repertoire changes presets, scenes, blocks, parameters etc. when I change to another song. This way, I can simplify my footswitch usage since most of the heavy lifting is done as soon as I tap my iPad to switch to another song. It's glorious.

 

[Will Chen]

In the signal chain, how many blocks can you use? Obviously DSP varies with effects, but generally speaking, my helix chain would typically be a volume boost assigned to a switch, a distortion pedal, a single amp, single IR, an eq, a delay, and a chorus, maybe a phaser or flanger too. I would normally throw a reverb in for a snapshot effect but I can live with a short delay instead of a reverb. Will the fm3 handle all that?

You can use as many as you want up to the CPU threshold (or effects blocks limits). Most "kitchen sink" style factory presets include a comp, wah, drive, amp, cab, multiple modulations, delay, and reverb. You may run into the limit with everything engaged depending on effects types/settings

One thing I forgot above was wah.. has the fm3 got an auto wah? I have a wah block in my helix chain but there is no auto wah and the expression pedal with the wah blocks are not that great, but with Fractal I would want to address that if possible.

Absolutely, though you'd need to "build" it in the FM3 by assigning an Envelope Follower(or LFO if you just want it to open/close as a set rate) either to the control of a Wah block or the frequency of a filter block.

 

[unix-guy]

Also remember that a snapshot and a scene are similar but not the same thing... Block settings are shared across scenes unless you use different channels of the blocks or use Scene Controllers.

A lot of Helix users (and others) get tripped up by this.

 

[alex1fly]

I'm new to the FM3 but have been devouring the manual, Leon Todd's videos, and working through basic functionality on the unit.

If you're in scene mode you can cycle between Scenes 1-3, 4-6, etc. Press and hold the left or right footswitch to do this. EZ.

I'm maxing out my FM3's CPU with 12+ blocks, but there are lots of tricks to save CPU. Like amp blocks have a built-in Boost where you can still choose boost types (like TS808), so you don't necessarily need to use a Drive block.

The manual gives examples of doing an auto-wah. I haven't done it, but I have automated parameters with an LFO.

The FM3 has three manuals - one general, one for blocks specifically, one for footswitch functionality. The manuals are excellently written.

Manual: https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/FM3/FM3-Owners-Manual.pdf
Block guide: https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/fas-guides/Fractal-Audio-Blocks-Guide.pdf
Footswitch guide: https://www.fractalaudio.com/downlo.../Fractal-Audio-Footswitch-Functions-Guide.pdf

 

[Greg Ferguson]

The FM3's switch layout by itself is quite flexible. Fractal builds a layout editor into the FM3-Edit application, so we have easy access to make changes to the default. From that came a spin (OMG3) on another existing layout (OMG9), which is based on using the FM3 and FC6 foot controller.

That particular combination, the FM3+FC6, is very flexible and provides faster access to presets, scenes, and effects. And, because it's modular and both the FM3 and FC6 share a common chassis size, they make an ideal compact traveling duo, whether you're having to take a subway or plane.

The FM3 manual explains the default layout on p.8 and in section 10, and there are many videos that discuss using the FM3's three switches, or FM3+FC6 with the OMG9 layout. Once you're familiar with the system it's easy to move around between either combination.

 

[Paulzx]

Personally, I set up what's called "per preset" foot switches for every preset. This is because some presets/songs I may only need two scenes, so I set up all foot switches to toggle (no guesswork while I'm playing piano and singing).

But more fundamentally, you can effectively have all scenes on one footswitch if you like; just set it to "increment/decrement scene." You can also assign up to four scenes per switch by choosing two to toggle between using the tap function and two to toggle between using the hold function.

The footswitches on the Fractal gear are SUPER powerful and versatile.

I think the FM3 can handle the preset you describe, including the reverb. Of course, as you point out, the number of blocks and kind all affect the DSP usage. Now if you tried to use all those blocks AND THEN add a Virtual Capo, I think you might be overdoing it.

I've never used the autowah, but I'm sure it's got a great one. Plus, there are numerous ways you can set up an autowah outside of the actual effect.

My last piece of advice, if you're a professional gigging musician, would be to use something like OnSong on your iPad to automate preset & scene changes via MIDI, as well as turn on & bypass certain effects, or even adjust parameters. I do this; every song in my band's 200+ song repertoire changes presets, scenes, blocks, parameters etc. when I change to another song. This way, I can simplify my footswitch usage since most of the heavy lifting is done as soon as I tap my iPad to switch to another song. It's glorious.

So basically I can toggle between any amount of scenes on those three foot switches.. is it awkward to have to toggle to do a quick switch during a song?

 

[Paulzx]

Absolutely, though you'd need to "build" it in the FM3 by assigning an Envelope Follower(or LFO if you just want it to open/close as a set rate) either to the control of a Wah block or the frequency of a filter block.

thats fine, just need it to operate on its own once I've put the parameters in

 

[Paulzx]

Also remember that a snapshot and a scene are similar but not the same thing... Block settings are shared across scenes unless you use different channels of the blocks or use Scene Controllers.

A lot of Helix users (and others) get tripped up by this.

Hmm.. I don't fully understand how scenes work yet, but taking the above into account, I assume you can still have them available on a foot switch even with differing block values, or is that not the case if you're having to use channels instead?

 

[unix-guy]

Hmm.. I don't fully understand how scenes work yet, but taking the above into account, I assume you can still have them available on a foot switch even with differing block values, or is that not the case if you're having to use channels instead?

Yes, a scene merely represents the on/off states and channel selections for each block.

 

[Paulzx]

I'm new to the FM3 but have been devouring the manual, Leon Todd's videos, and working through basic functionality on the unit.

If you're in scene mode you can cycle between Scenes 1-3, 4-6, etc. Press and hold the left or right footswitch to do this. EZ.

I'm maxing out my FM3's CPU with 12+ blocks, but there are lots of tricks to save CPU. Like amp blocks have a built-in Boost where you can still choose boost types (like TS808), so you don't necessarily need to use a Drive block.

The manual gives examples of doing an auto-wah. I haven't done it, but I have automated parameters with an LFO.

The FM3 has three manuals - one general, one for blocks specifically, one for footswitch functionality. The manuals are excellently written.

Manual: https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/FM3/FM3-Owners-Manual.pdf
Block guide: https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/fas-guides/Fractal-Audio-Blocks-Guide.pdf
Footswitch guide: https://www.fractalaudio.com/downlo.../Fractal-Audio-Footswitch-Functions-Guide.pdf

Great info.. I heard about the saving DSP tricks, invariably I always end up using an overdrive pedal with the high gain amp models but that's in the Helix, I don't know if it's the same with the fractal, I assume it would be

 

[Paulzx]

The FM3's switch layout by itself is quite flexible. Fractal builds a layout editor into the FM3-Edit application, so we have easy access to make changes to the default. From that came a spin (OMG3) on another existing layout (OMG9), which is based on using the FM3 and FC6 foot controller.

That particular combination, the FM3+FC6, is very flexible and provides faster access to presets, scenes, and effects. And, because it's modular and both the FM3 and FC6 share a common chassis size, they make an ideal compact traveling duo, whether you're having to take a subway or plane.

The FM3 manual explains the default layout on p.8 and in section 10, and there are many videos that discuss using the FM3's three switches, or FM3+FC6 with the OMG9 layout. Once you're familiar with the system it's easy to move around between either combination.

Yep I have been considering an fc6 to go with the fm3 when I get it, that more closely matchs my helix footswitch availability. The spanner in the works there is that it starts to become pricey and the fm9 then looks like a better option potentially

 

[Greg Ferguson]

it starts to become pricey and the fm9 then looks like a better option potentially

There are tradeoffs both ways. I have all three models, and like them all for different reasons.

The FM3 lacks the CPU power, but it makes up for it with portability. It's surprising the sound you can get out of the FM3 if you know its limitations, and being able to get those sounds from a small footprint unit that'll fit inside a suitcase or backpack with your clothes, well, it opens up potential places you can take it where you wouldn't want to bother with the larger siblings. The FM9 has more power and can do other things, but it has the same number buttons as the FM3+FC6, without that option of reducing to almost half the size and weight if you need it to.

That probably only muddied the water for you. Sorry about that.

 

[Johnnyh64]

For scene changes on the FM3 alone, I prefer to set it up so each button toggles two scenes (ie button 1 toggles scene 1 and 2, the second button toggles scene 3 and 4, etc). Then you have quick access to the first 6 scenes. You could press and hold the 3 button for the other 2 scenes. Press and hold the middle button gets you back to the master layout to chose between presets, scenes and effects. I like that layout and it‘s pretty fast to operate as many presets only need 6 scenes in my case.

 

[Ugly Bunny]

So basically I can toggle between any amount of scenes on those three foot switches.. is it awkward to have to toggle to do a quick switch during a song?

It can be. If I have too many scenes and don't plan it out right (or even just a few scenes but don't plan it out right), I've had moments where I'm not sure where I even am in the song lol.

Most of my songs now only have 3 scenes or fewer. For instance, I'll tap my iPad which changes songs and sets up the preset and first scene for the intro to the song. Then, the foot switches are set up to only access then next two scenes and not even access that first intro scene. So I can have all three switches toggle between the verse and chorus scenes since MIDI handled the intro and I don't need it again.

I also ALWAYS have my rightmost switch's hold function set to Tuner, so that's predictable. The tap function of all switches changes scenes. The middle switch's hold function changes to a different "view" and back (even though you have only three switches, they're 1/4th of the total "layout" so you can set up the other 9 switches and change "views" to access them). On that other view, I have the middle tap function set to return to the first view. The left switch increments presets and the right switch decrements. From my main view, my left switch's hold function activates/inactivates a layout that lets me turn individual blocks on and off.

The block bypass layout is less useful on the FM3 since you can't really have a kitchen sink preset that has gobs of effects, so I rarely use it, but if I need a little extra bite on a clean sound, I can jump in there and kick on the OD or whatever, or chorus. I do have one preset that I use the most - my "Meat & Potatoes" preset - this one has a basic clean sound, basic OD sound, high gain sound, and lead sound (by sound I mean scene).

The TLDR version of all this is that, IMO, the FM3 is DSP-limited enough - in a good way - that the three onboard switches are plenty if you set things up right and don't expect every preset to be universally versatile.

 

[Paulzx]

That probably only muddied the water for you. Sorry about that.

No not at all, they're all valid points. I'm not concerned with portability at the moment, thinking more of budget. The FM3 is attractive from a price point of view, if you can do it all with just the one unit. My reservation is, if to make it more practical you have to add more foot switches, you're suddenly up to around the 2k mark, at which point you're closer to FM9 territory, the bonus there being the extra foot switches and CPU etc.

That is for me, where the difficulty in choice is. Before the FM9 was available, an FM3 + FC6 or 12, would have probably been an easy choice to make, but prices on FM3 and the foot controllers hasn't come down sufficiently enough to make it a much cheaper option, at the moment at least

 

[Paulzx]

For scene changes on the FM3 alone, I prefer to set it up so each button toggles two scenes (ie button 1 toggles scene 1 and 2, the second button toggles scene 3 and 4, etc). Then you have quick access to the first 6 scenes. You could press and hold the 3 button for the other 2 scenes. Press and hold the middle button gets you back to the master layout to chose between presets, scenes and effects. I like that layout and it‘s pretty fast to operate as many presets only need 6 scenes in my case.

I'm trying to imagine how easy it is to toggle different scenes with those three switches, quickly enough to do it mid song, that could be tricky. i expect most people bought one of the extra foot controller boards to get around that

 

[Paulzx]

It can be. If I have too many scenes and don't plan it out right (or even just a few scenes but don't plan it out right), I've had moments where I'm not sure where I even am in the song lol.

Most of my songs now only have 3 scenes or fewer. For instance, I'll tap my iPad which changes songs and sets up the preset and first scene for the intro to the song. Then, the foot switches are set up to only access then next two scenes and not even access that first intro scene. So I can have all three switches toggle between the verse and chorus scenes since MIDI handled the intro and I don't need it again.

I also ALWAYS have my rightmost switch's hold function set to Tuner, so that's predictable. The tap function of all switches changes scenes. The middle switch's hold function changes to a different "view" and back (even though you have only three switches, they're 1/4th of the total "layout" so you can set up the other 9 switches and change "views" to access them). On that other view, I have the middle tap function set to return to the first view. The left switch increments presets and the right switch decrements. From my main view, my left switch's hold function activates/inactivates a layout that lets me turn individual blocks on and off.

The block bypass layout is less useful on the FM3 since you can't really have a kitchen sink preset that has gobs of effects, so I rarely use it, but if I need a little extra bite on a clean sound, I can jump in there and kick on the OD or whatever, or chorus. I do have one preset that I use the most - my "Meat & Potatoes" preset - this one has a basic clean sound, basic OD sound, high gain sound, and lead sound (by sound I mean scene).

The TLDR version of all this is that, IMO, the FM3 is DSP-limited enough - in a good way - that the three onboard switches are plenty if you set things up right and don't expect every preset to be universally versatile.

Thanks for the explanation.. I can see there would be a bit of tap dancing involved! This is probably the only area that I would be losing from the Helix. I don't tend to edit presets or use individual effects on the fly, I set out all of my presets with the various snap shots assigned to each of the 8 available foot switches and just use those, so it's easy to just hit whichever foot switch you want, no toggling involved, this is why I'm now starting to wonder if FM9 might be better for me.

My fear is, once I have my hands on an FM3 and love it, I'll be too limited with three foot switches, then invariably spend the same money again on an FC6, which is probably a bit silly at this point with the FM9 being available now

 

[Ugly Bunny]

I'm trying to imagine how easy it is to toggle different scenes with those three switches, quickly enough to do it mid song, that could be tricky. i expect most people bought one of the extra foot controller boards to get around that

Well, having an external set of switches won't make scene changes any easier or faster mid-song, unless of course you have to make multiple taps to get to the scene you want.

In addition to my setup advice above, when I used my Axe Fx III and FC6 to gig, I would have the top right switch set up to toggle between both "views" in the layout. In the second view is where I would have my preset selection. I had it set up so that when I selected the preset I wanted, it would automatically go to the layout/view I needed (the one with access to scenes). What this means in this discussion is that it's possible to set it up so you have access to the functions you'll need in a given song. You can build your switching around your workflow; you don't have to try to shoehorn in your workflow around a particular layout or view. Yes, getting an FC6 would absolutely allow you to expand your versatility, but it may or may not be necessary. Learning to use the FC (6, 12, or just the switches built into the FM3 or FM9) is well worth the effort

 

[Ugly Bunny]

Thanks for the explanation.. I can see there would be a bit of tap dancing involved! This is probably the only area that I would be losing from the Helix. I don't tend to edit presets or use individual effects on the fly, I set out all of my presets with the various snap shots assigned to each of the 8 available foot switches and just use those, so it's easy to just hit whichever foot switch you want, no toggling involved, this is why I'm now starting to wonder if FM9 might be better for me.

My fear is, once I have my hands on an FM3 and love it, I'll be too limited with three foot switches, then invariably spend the same money again on an FC6, which is probably a bit silly at this point with the FM9 being available now

Yeah, plus the FM9 has more power, more I/O options, etc. If you have the cash and the floorspace and, of course, the need for the extra DSP and switches, I say go for it. I, however, need something the size of the FC6 (or FM3) to fit under my keyboard rig and the FM9 is just too big, even though I'd love it's extra DSP and switches (though, as I've explained, I really don't NEED those extra switches).

So yeah, if you can get a hold of one, do it. You can also get the FM3 and try it for 14 days and only lose out on shipping, so that's another way to go. Or, if say you decide 6 months from now that the FM3 just doesn't work and you need the FM9 or even the Axe Fx III and an FC6, you can sell the FM3 easily and take little or no financial loss