Power amp suggestion and speaker question

B

Blueser

Member
So....I am back in the game. After selling my Standard a while back, I now have an Ultra, and I am impressed with the progress that has been made in the last year. That new Boogie MkII C+ model just kills me! Anyway, back to my questions.....

I know that the ART SLA is a highly regarded SS power amp here, but I was wondering how the owners here got around the lack of the 1/4" output jack? Also, how do the ART power amps stack up against the Carvin stuff, or even other power amps such as the QSC, or Crown? I want to make sure whatever I get it of high quality (both sound and tone).

Additionally, I am going to get a speaker cabinet to go with this setup, and one problem I recognize, is that these SS power amps put out a lot of juice, and most of the guitar speakers that I like are rated at under 100 watts each. I do not really care for the EV 12L which is what I had the last time around. I prefer a more traditional guitar speaker. Right now, I have a Tone Tubby H-Bomb cabinet with one Alnico and one Ceramic TT speaker, but the cabinet is rated at 80 watts total. Will something like and SLA-2 or other comparable amp shred my speakers? I want to make sure I have plenty of clean headroom which is why I was leaning towards the SLA-2 or something comparable.

I have been thinking about getting a THD 2x12 cabinet which is compact, but toneful, and wiring it for stereo with a pair of Mesa Black Shadow 90 speakers. Each channel of the most common SS power amps put out at least twice that in wattage per channel. So what is everyone else doing when they run a power amp into a traditional speaker cabinet?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave
 
Many more speakers are damaged by an amp driven into clipping than speakers driven by an amp with more than enough clean headroom. Depends on your ability to tell when you're pushing the speaker beyond it's limits.
 
I run a bridged SLA-1, so 260 W - into a 2x12 VHT cab rated at 60W (1 x G12H, 1xV30) with no problems (though I have the amp set at -9db generally). Its volume that'll kill the cab not Watts.

Even with the amp at -9db, and teh axe on 3/4 its as loud as my VHT 50ST is.

As for the jacks - I just wire the amps O/P using speaker wire with no plug to a Jack socket mounted to a backplate. My speaker Jacks then plug in there. Its the same solution many use, though maybe not installed as neetly -its what I call functional ;)

SDC11180.jpg
 
paulmapp8306 said:
I run a bridged SLA-1, so 260 W - into a 2x12 VHT cab rated at 60W (1 x G12H, 1xV30) with no problems (though I have the amp set at -9db generally). Its volume that'll kill the cab not Watts.

Even with the amp at -9db, and teh axe on 3/4 its as loud as my VHT 50ST is.

As for the jacks - I just wire the amps O/P using speaker wire with no plug to a Jack socket mounted to a backplate. My speaker Jacks then plug in there. Its the same solution many use, though maybe not installed as neetly -its what I call functional ;)

SDC11180.jpg
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Thanks very much for the replies thus far. I was actually going to get an SLA-2 and run it into a 160 Watt 2x12 THD cabinet. I want to ensure that I don't run out of clean headroom. Do you think that this is overkill? I figured if I run the amp at less than half, and get the volume I am looking for, then I would be OK.

Also, where do I find those patch panels and connectors that you have mounted to the back of your rack, if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks again,
Dave
 
Should be fine. I was a/B in running the SLA-1 in bridged to gice 260 watts, or just one side of an SLA-2 for 200w.

Ive never used twin cabs, so saved a little by getting the SLA-1.

In your case you could run an SLA-2 single sided into you 160W cab, and it would be fine - even turned up full. As long as the amp doesnt clip it doesnt matter if the axe is full and the amp low or vica versa.

A 160W cab, driven by the full 200 SS Watts would be fine IMO.

If you need more headroom, just run it bridged. OK thats 520W, so you need to be a little more carefull, but it owul still be fine.

As for the plates, I got them from studiospares in the UK. the sockets are Neutric "D" types. You can get these with all sorts of connections in the same format - XRL, Jack, Speakons amonst others. the plate was a 1U black pre-punched with D type holes.

Cost me around £4 for the plates, and £5 for each connector.

Dont know where you are (UK/EU/US)

But:
Heres the sockets (neutrics site - readily available from studio spare shops):

http://www.neutrik.com/us/en/audio/204_ ... tlist.aspx

heres a UK source for the plates (Im sure you canget them in US if needed):

http://www.audiospares.com/product.php? ... 631&page=1
 
Would anyone happen to have an up close picture of the back of an ART SLA-1 or 2? I just want to see what the connectors look like.

I think there are banana plug to 1/4" female adapters that would work as well as a patch panel type assemble that may get me set up more quickly. This is what I was thinking about....

http://www.stsi.biz/bnp-118.html

Just a thought, but I would appreciate opinions or suggestions.

Thanks,
Dave
 
That would work.

However I have 2 reservtions

1. I havent come accross a decent female barrel jack yet (thinking of the F/F barrel connectors to connect 2 lenths together). And its not locking, so could putt out?

2. I prefere to use bared wire ends on the amp and screw these down. Nothing wrong with banana plugs, but I feel you get a better connection with wire screwed down. And again, thoes plugs could pull out.

That aside, it should do fine.
 
"So what is everyone else doing when they run a power amp into a traditional speaker cabinet?"

Well I'm using a QSC GX3 SS poweramp into (2) Avatar 2x12 cab's. the settings on the QSC are at -10dB each channel, per the manual.. Also, each cab is loaded with a Celestion Vintage 30 (60 watts) & a Celestion Classic Lead 80 (80 watts). The poweramp using both channels is rated at 300w per channel with an 8 ohm cab..

They are still breaking in and sounding better everyday!!!
 
Jason1974 said:
"So what is everyone else doing when they run a power amp into a traditional speaker cabinet?"

Well I'm using a QSC GX3 SS poweramp into (2) Avatar 2x12 cab's. the settings on the QSC are at -10dB each channel, per the manual.. Also, each cab is loaded with a Celestion Vintage 30 (60 watts) & a Celestion Classic Lead 80 (80 watts). The poweramp using both channels is rated at 300w per channel with an 8 ohm cab..

They are still breaking in and sounding better everyday!!!
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How is the quality of the QSC or Crown power amps? They seem to be comparably priced for the lower wattage (300 watts and less).
 
"How is the quality of the QSC or Crown power amps? They seem to be comparably priced for the lower wattage (300 watts and less)."

I can't speak for the Crown, but I've had no problems at all with my QSC..
There are others in this forum that also use the QSC poweramps..
The only thing I've noticed is that there is a very slight fan noise coming from the unit itself (cooling fan).. But, like i said, very slight. I'm sure that's common with any of the poweramps..
I get way more fan noise from my Ultra.. LOL..
My new SilenX fan should be here today too.. :)
Have a good one..
 
Jason1974 said:
"How is the quality of the QSC or Crown power amps? They seem to be comparably priced for the lower wattage (300 watts and less)."

I can't speak for the Crown, but I've had no problems at all with my QSC..
There are others in this forum that also use the QSC poweramps..
The only thing I've noticed is that there is a very slight fan noise coming from the unit itself (cooling fan).. But, like i said, very slight. I'm sure that's common with any of the poweramps..
I get way more fan noise from my Ultra.. LOL..
My new SilenX fan should be here today too.. :)
Have a good one..
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Cool.....I just pulled the trigger on the RMX-850.

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/rmx/rmx.htm

200 watts per channel.

Now to choose a cabinet......Hmmmmm.......I am thinking a nice THD 2x12.
 
Brian G said:
Many more speakers are damaged by an amp driven into clipping than speakers driven by an amp with more than enough clean headroom. Depends on your ability to tell when you're pushing the speaker beyond it's limits.
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True words. Underpowered amps driven into clipping have been the death of many a speaker....................and lots of guys don't understand this. Leave yourself some clean headroom.
 
Thanks everyone for their replies. I have pulled the trigger on a QSC RMX850 power amp, and a THD 2x12 cabinet. I am going to check it out in bridged mode with the stock speakers, but I suspect I will wire it for stereo with a pair of Southbay Scumback speakers (1 H 100 watter with 55 hz cone, and 1 100 watt Alnico). This will give me a 2:1 power to speaker rating ratio per channel, so I am hoping this all comes together as planned.

Now off to pick a midi controller! :shock:
 
Enjoy.

it will sound fine. May be a little low in volume for you though - depends what you need/want.

i drive a 60W cab with 260W (Art SLA-1 in bridged) and its fine. With amp up full, and art up full its JUST louder than my 50W head was. I dont run it that loud mostly though - tending to go to -9db on the amp - which is somewhere around 40-50W ish but leaves plenty of clean headroom for spikes.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
Enjoy.

it will sound fine. May be a little low in volume for you though - depends what you need/want.

i drive a 60W cab with 260W (Art SLA-1 in bridged) and its fine. With amp up full, and art up full its JUST louder than my 50W head was. I dont run it that loud mostly though - tending to go to -9db on the amp - which is somewhere around 40-50W ish but leaves plenty of clean headroom for spikes.
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Wow....I am glad I went with the louder amp then. The RMX850 does 200 watts per channel or 530 watts in bridged mode (8 ohms). I may run it bridged at first and see what the volume is like. It has to be better than my Carvin DCM 150, which was 75 watts per channel in stereo and 150 watts bridged (8 ohms), and was not all that loud, but just (barely) loud enough for the jams I was doing. I had a couple of problems with this amp going into clipping to get the volumes I was looking for.

Clearly tube and SS watts don't line up one for one in the equation, because my Komet 60 is pretty damn loud at 60 watts compared to that Carvin (DCM 150) power amp at 75 watts per channel, and could not keep up with the Komet at all.
 
Blueser said:
Clearly tube and SS watts don't line up one for one in the equation, because my Komet 60 is pretty damn loud at 60 watts compared to that Carvin (DCM 150) power amp at 75 watts per channel, and could not keep up with the Komet at all.
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75 watts a side for a SS power amp is a joke unless you're playing very quietly. You're already in a power deficit as soon as you turn it on...............................zero headroom.

Comparing a Komet 60 to a SS power amp is comparing apples to oranges, though. The Komet is meant to sing, snarl, bite, punch, growl or scream with a guitar based on input and levels. A SS power amp is meant to provide full spectrum, clean reproduction of the input............................and you need the clean headroom to do it.

Not to start the age old argument again, but "tube watts" are the same as "solid state watts"..............................the way the amps respond and deliver the output is what we hear as the big difference.
 
axepilot said:
Blueser said:
Clearly tube and SS watts don't line up one for one in the equation, because my Komet 60 is pretty damn loud at 60 watts compared to that Carvin (DCM 150) power amp at 75 watts per channel, and could not keep up with the Komet at all.
Click to expand...

75 watts a side for a SS power amp is a joke unless you're playing very quietly. You're already in a power deficit as soon as you turn it on...............................zero headroom.

Comparing a Komet 60 to a SS power amp is comparing apples to oranges, though. The Komet is meant to sing, snarl, bite, punch, growl or scream with a guitar based on input and levels. A SS power amp is meant to provide full spectrum, clean reproduction of the input............................and you need the clean headroom to do it.

Not to start the age old argument again, but "tube watts" are the same as "solid state watts"..............................the way the amps respond and deliver the output is what we hear as the big difference.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but when I had the Carvin DCM150, I was not aware, as my experience with amps were completely in the tube realm. That being my only point of reference, I was terribly disappointed when I started using the Carvin power amp with my Axe FX Standard rig at the time. Simply gutless performance!

This QSC RMX850 is 200 Watts per channel, and really rocks hard. Plenty loud and clean for what I need, and is built so much better than the Carvin, that it's almost laughable! I am also using balanced XLR connections between my now Axe FX Ultra and the RMX850, and there is also a pretty significant difference in that config as well vs. unbalanced for the realized volume of the setup.

I am in a much better place these days, and I am completely loving my Axe FX Ultra rig!

I will be wiring my THD 2x12 cabinet in stereo with a pair of 100 watt Scumback speakers at 8 ohm, which should really push my rig over the top! The cabinet is due today, as is my Midi Mate foot switch. This should be a good weekend! :D
 
Blueser said:
I am in a much better place these days, and I am completely loving my Axe FX Ultra rig!

I will be wiring my THD 2x12 cabinet in stereo with a pair of 100 watt Scumback speakers at 8 ohm, which should really push my rig over the top! The cabinet is due today, as is my Midi Mate foot switch. This should be a good weekend! :D
Click to expand...

Life is good! :D
 
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