Power amp Simulation

Y

Yzaviv

Member
Hey guys,

Need some help here.. So i have the Axe Fx II and its awesome , I'm currently using it with my Mesa Boogie Mark V connected to the return, so as you pronely understand I'm using the Mark V power amp. Then I'm connected to my absolutely fantastic Matrix 212FR cabinet. Now heres my question..

I was thinking to buy a Tube power amp, i had the matrix GT1000FX and i didn't find as tubish like i wanted, the Mark V power amp sound more like i wanted. So you're asking why I'm looking for tube power amp? Well the thing is that the Mark V sounds very good, but 95% of the time the "Power Amp Simulation" is turned off, if i turn it on the sound doesn't sound good especially on distortion.

I really want to keep the tubish tone and also to get the most of the Axe Fx, i afraid I'm missing the power amp sim.

I know that the manual says that with SS power amps , amp sim works the best, but i really need that tubish tone. So I'm asking your Help choosing a Tube power amp . especially from:

People that use Tube power amp , and using the Power amp simulation with distortion tones and variety of amp types.

I have no problem of Budget.. :)

Thanks!!
 
There are several ways:
Use a matrix for example, but then you need to tweak the patches differently to sound the way you want (with poweramp sim on).
Or you use a tube-power amp, and for this you have to turn power amp modelling off.

If you really want a tube power amp, and like the mark V so much, then maybe try a Mesa 2:90, is also a Mesa, and should have similar "tonal characteristics", I think. The 2:90 is powerful, and often used when it comes to powering rack gear. Maybe take your afx2 to a shop and try it in combination with a 2:90, and maybe they also have some other amps. There was somewhere a thread about a "Retro valve power amp", don't know anymore the correct name, and can't find it anymore at the moment.
 
hey Darklord, as i said i have used the Matrix and didn't like it that much.. and yeah tried lots of tweaking...

Im after a Tube power amp which will sound great with Power Simulation On. I need people with experience that are currently using a Tube Power amp and the Amp simulation on - like i said in Distortion tones.

Thanks!
 
fyi Peavey made some tube power amps a while ago that I still see from time to time on Ebay. Lots of reviews out there on those too...
 
Peavey Classic 50 50 with power amp SIM on is fantastic!
Quite Flat but with the right valve tone...
I tried the Matrix but i sold it alter a week ok tweeking and comparing
 
Yzaviv said:
hey Darklord, as i said i have used the Matrix and didn't like it that much.. and yeah tried lots of tweaking...

Im after a Tube power amp which will sound great with Power Simulation On. I need people with experience that are currently using a Tube Power amp and the Amp simulation on - like i said in Distortion tones.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

If you want a poweramp that sounds good with the Axe's poweramp emulation on, you'll want a high wattage tube amp with tons of headroom and that can occupy a wide part of the frequency spectrum.

I'd recommend the Fryette 2/90/2. 90 watts per side, so in other words more volume and headroom than you'll ever need, and it uses 6550 or KT88 tubes. It's just about the loudest and cleanest tube power amp still in production today. It probably comes closer to closing the "solid state clarity while still being a tube amp" gap than any other tube poweramp out there.

I own a VHT 2/90/2 (it's the exact same thing as the Fryette 2/90/2 just with a different logo) and it's about as good of a tube poweramp as you can ask for. I love mine. It sounds fantastic.
 
Thanks GreatGrean , how does it sound for instance with power sim on when using marshall amps distorted ?

Do you think you can make a small demo, something really short&simple

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I don't have any mics, so unfortunately I can't make any demos that would do this thread any good, but I can tell you that I do pretty clearly prefer keeping the poweramp sims on when I'm using the VHT, even at pretty loud levels.
 
And at small levels for home uses how does it perform? Sound good at low volume too ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yzaviv said:
And at small levels for home uses how does it perform? Sound good at low volume too ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It actually has probably the best master volume control I've heard on a tube amp. Unlike most amps that go from 0 to 80% volume between 0 and 1 on the knob, the VHT (Fryette) has an almost completely linear knob. The volume steadily increases through the whole range. Also, at 0 the output is completely silent unlike some tube amps where you still get some treble bleed through even at 0, and the frequency response stays even all the way down to being off, so in other words even on like 0.2 volume, which is basically quieter than TV volume, you still get a "full" signal representation, meaning the lowest bass to the highest treble frequencies the amp will output are audible.

The only negatives I can say about the amp as a whole are that:

1. It has a rear fan that doesn't turn off and while it's by no means a hair dryer, it's pretty far from silent. It's noticably louder than the Axe-Fx's fan.

the next two are nitpicky but for the sake of full disclosure I'll post them.

2. You can't bridge the channels to form a single 180 watt channel
3. You can't use one set of controls (volume, presence, depth) to control both outputs


You can, however, only plug in one mono quarter inch cable into the input of Channel A and if you don't plug anything into Channel B, Channel A's signal will be routed into both channels. Still, bearing in mind those last two negatives in the list, actually calling it a "dual independent mono" amp would be more accurate than calling it a "stereo" amp.


But anyway, if you want a big, loud, clean stereo tube amp, you really can't do much better than one of these things. Also they're built like tanks. I'd probably trust one to stop a bullet if you held it just right.
 
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I used to use the Fryette 2/50/2 with KT-77's in it and was pretty killer.
Loud , quiet, it didn't matter it sounded great. I left the power amp sims on all the time with it too.
I also had the Matrix GT1000fx and although I thought it "sounded" great it left me wanting for "feel"
so I went back to tube amps (Now I am using FRFR and a tube power amp-2X12 recto together)
 
KINGSFAN do you use the mesa 2:90 with power sim on? especially on distortion sound?

GreatGreen thanx! The con you have mentioned really doesn't matter for my use, i just want to know if you use the power sim on with distortion sounds on marshall/fender amp especially Marshall because when i turn on the power sim on the marshall amps it doesn't sound good, can you clear this point to me (precisely on that issue?

Kmanick same question to you, i understand you are using the fryette 2/50/2 now with FRFR and 2X12 cab, i just want to know if you use the power sim on with distortion sounds on marshall/fender amp especially Marshall because when i turn on the power sim on the marshall amps it doesn't sound good, can you clear this point to me (precisely on that issue?
 
Darklord said:
If you really want a tube power amp, and like the mark V so much, then maybe try a Mesa 2:90, is also a Mesa, and should have similar "tonal characteristics", I think. The 2:90 is powerful, and often used when it comes to powering rack gear. Maybe take your afx2 to a shop and try it in combination with a 2:90, and maybe they also have some other amps. There was somewhere a thread about a "Retro valve power amp", don't know anymore the correct name, and can't find it anymore at the moment.
Click to expand...


KINGSFAN said:
I use my Axe II with a Mesa 2:90 thru (2) 4x12 recto cabs. It is a great rig!!
Click to expand...


Well, I was running a 2:90 for couple of years before entering the AxeII world back than when I had a mini bar size rack, it was always the killers killer!
Not enough words to say about that great power amp.
Then got the ULTRA and after couple of months switched to the II and always run through the 2:90 with amp sim on and 2 Mesa cabs loaded with EVM's (@ home) and in the studio through an ENGL 4x12, the sound was a bomb! It cut through the band mix with any drummer / 2nd guitar like a hot knife through butter, I was always "all over the place" (as my band mate other guitarist used to complain all the time).
But…..it was way too heavy for me and VERY expensive to drag all over to rehearsals and gigs.
So I've started looking for a lighter solution.

I started with the Carvin DCM200L which weights nothing and it was very nice.
1st thing I've immediate noticed was the over bass I had all over my presets, it was so boomy, I just could not play like that so I went and tweaked most of my presets.
Then switched to a Matrix GT1000FX and the sound got better with a lot more headroom and power, still using same cabs.
I've started thinking about the bass issue and talked with the guy who bought the ULTRA from me and he use it with studio monitors and he said "yea, when I first powered it up everything was soooooo bassy, how can you play like that?"
After some more thinking it hits me, the 2:90 has a BASS increase option named "Deep" which is operated via a footswitch / dry signal.
I used it without the Deep engaged so the 2:90 was cutting out the bass frequencies and not increasing it (when the BASS is ON).
Bottom line ? the 2:90 is great but it colors the sound a lot and if you insist run it with the Axe, make sure the "Deep" option is ON all the time cause that’s the true sound and not with the Deep OFF.
 
I went from a fryette 2/90/2 to a vht 2150.

The fryettes are the cleanest non FRFR tube amps out here right now.

Many people like the sound of PA on through these tube amps. I did not.

It's not that I think they necessarily sounded bad, but doubling up on resonances, filtering etc sounds weird and non traditional when compare A/B to standard setups. Everything seems very hyped and is different from what a real amp provides. I'll leave the subjective opinion out of it. You decide if you like it.

I moved from the 2/90/2 to the 2150 after A/Bing them. The full size iron in the 2150 sounds as big as a regular tube head. The 2/90/2 is a little smaller sounding.


I had the 2:90 years a go as well as the 50/50 and I would say that I wouldn't use either one with the sims in as they add a lot of color themselves. But again, it's your opinion that counts to you.
 
Yzaviv said:
KINGSFAN
Kmanick same question to you, i understand you are using the fryette 2/50/2 now with FRFR and 2X12 cab, i just want to know if you use the power sim on with distortion sounds on marshall/fender amp especially Marshall because when i turn on the power sim on the marshall amps it doesn't sound good, can you clear this point to me (precisely on that issue?
Click to expand...
I am no longer using the Fryette, I sold it to a local friend who is gigging with it.
Now I am running into a CLR and a peavey JSX head. I switched to a head because I wanted a real tube amp again and instead of building a rack I stumbled
across the JSX for a great price and I've had 2 of them in the past so I knew what I was getting, and my friend was in love with my fryette so....... yada,yada,yada

Surprisingly enough the JSX power section works really well with the Axe FX but like the Fryette 2/50/2 I have found that using a tube power amp with the axe
at low to moderate volume I have no issues leaving power amp sims on. But once I get up to Jam or gig volume I find the power amps start to fight each other and you get this flub
or mush, whatever you want to call it , it's not good. So one of the big factors I found is what type of amp models you gravitate towards is very important.
The 2/50/2 is EL-34 based. So on any of the Marshall based amps you can turn off power amp sims and still get very close to the modeled sound.
However it doesn't work quite a well with the mesa amp models. I put in KT-77's which is somewhat like a cross between 6L6's and EL-34's
but it didn't really help much (I have them in my JSX as well)
I used to have a Mesa 50/50 and had the exact opposite problem, all of my Mesa models sounded great.My Marshall based? not so much.
On a positive note, I figured this all out at my buddys house and he has a real JVM, adn the Jvm model withthe power amp sims off through the fyette was almost spot on.
We actually liked the Axe version better, it was less fizzy and sharper sounding than the real deal.
 
Are you using firmware 12.04b??? The new firmware might add that extra heft you are looking for since it was pretty much an enhancement of the power amp simulation.
 
Yzaviv said:
GreatGreen thanx! The con you have mentioned really doesn't matter for my use, i just want to know if you use the power sim on with distortion sounds on marshall/fender amp especially Marshall because when i turn on the power sim on the marshall amps it doesn't sound good, can you clear this point to me (precisely on that issue?
Click to expand...

When I'm using the VHT 2/90/2 with Marshall and Fender amp sims (and all the other ones too) I prefer keeping the poweramp sims ON because it sounds awesome.

However, I never did use the 2/90/2 for extreme volume like kmanick a few posts up so I'm not really able to tell you how it sounds with too much accuracy for high volume playing.
 
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