Power amp modeling on or off?

Ledvedder

Ledvedder

Inspired
I'm trying to set up a few presets for a local radio station contest gig at the end of the month. We have to use the venue provided backline and have 5 minutes to set up before our slot. So, I'm going to set up some presets similar to this video. This will give me the option to go into the effects loop of the backline amp with output 2, and FOH through output 1, if possible. With this configuration, should I disable power amp modeling or leave it on?

 
Also, at the 5 minute mark of that video, he says to set output 2 to unity gain. But page 33 of the FM3 manual says to set output 2 to line level. So what is the correct setting?
 
Ledvedder said:
Also, at the 5 minute mark of that video, he says to set output 2 to unity gain. But page 33 of the FM3 manual says to set output 2 to line level. So what is the correct setting?
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Depends on the FX loop return of the amp you're feeding from output2 - some are designed for instrument level, some are designed to accept line level. Some have a switch to accommodate either. In the absence of knowing, I'd be tempted to set it to line level but be ready to reduce the output level significantly if it's overdriving the return on the amp.
 
What's the backline? Assuming it's the return of an amp with a high headroom low coloration power section (that you anticipate not likely playing into loud enough to distort it), I'd logically be thinking leave power amp modelling on, particularly if you are using aggressive non-master volume models (ie: cranked class-A amp models) and you want those higher levels of modelled p.a. gain to transfer through (otherwise that cranked up Vox model with p.a. modelling off could sound pretty feeble thru the backline).
 
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Prioritize the audience sound first (meaning leave power amp modelling on). On stage you just need to be able to hear yourself even if the sound isn't perfect.

That said, it's more inspiring when you sound great to yourself as well, so when you can that always helps. But doubling up the power amp engagement shouldn't affect your tone too much.

More important might be to send the FOH your cab block, but make the Out2 signal to the amp bypass the cab block.
 
Ledvedder said:
The backline amp is a Mesa Lonestar 2x12.
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The Lonestar has a great sounding tube power-amp.

For this event I'd disable the power-amp modeling, go into the Lonestar's return and let them mic the amp for FOH and whatever else. You'll have the flexibility of the FM3's presets, albeit very slightly colored by the amp and speakers.

If you rely on power-amp distortion in your presets then reduce the Lonestar's power output using the output switch and push it hard. It'll sing.

Page 33 in the FM3 manual is your friend, especially the note:
NOTE: Some guitar power amps are closer to neutral, and some players may prefer to leave power amp modeling ON. Try it both ways and see what you prefer.
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You can selectively turn off Power Amp Modeling in the Amp block in each preset, or you can do it for all presets in the global Setup. Create a setting in your Global Performance Page for the global setting and you can turn it on/off easily from the front panel.
 
I wouldn't risk everything on trying to mic up an unknown amp and cab at the last minute. Too many variables to go wrong there. Power Amp modeling on and going direct to FOH is likely the safer bet. You can at least audition that ahead of time.
 
sprint said:
Assuming it's the return of an amp with a high headroom low coloration power section (that you anticipate not likely playing into loud enough to distort it), I'd logically be thinking leave power amp modelling on...
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This. Unless you’re pushing the real amp’s power section hard — which will be purtydam loud — you won’t get any power-amp compression or distortion, and those things are an important of power-amp modeling.
 
Make two of each preset, but have one with power amp on and one with power amp off. Name them different! Also, make sure you take a laptop with axe-edit for quick and easy changes.

One other suggestion, if you know it will be a lonestar for sure, see if you can borrow or rent one ahead of time. This way you can test your setup. If you can't do either, maybe try posting on the forums here and see if someone else can try them out (a bit risky i know...).
 
I spent a few hours tonight trying to dial in some presets going into the effects return of my DSL40 combo. I figured this would be as close as I can get to the upcoming gig, with using the Lonestar combo. I obviously used no cab block on output 2. I set it to unity gain with the output 2 volume dial all the way up. I tried with power amp modeling both on and off. I just couldn't get a tone that made me happy. I tried these same presets out of output 1 with a cab block, as well as just playing straight through my DSL40, just to confirm that it wasn't just my ears or something. Both sounded good. But going into the effects return was just different, and not satisfying. I guess I'll keep playing around to see if I can get something usable.
 
Ledvedder said:
I tried with power amp modeling both on and off. I just couldn't get a tone that made me happy. I tried these same presets out of output 1 with a cab block, as well as just playing straight through my DSL40, just to confirm that it wasn't just my ears or something. Both sounded good. But going into the effects return was just different, and not satisfying.
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Check High Cut and Low Cut (probably more applicable if there is a Cab Block present)? Have you mapped Performance Parameters to the rotary encoders?

Check this out - this can be very handy for fine tuning:

 
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