Power amp for Axe-Fx 3 / FM3 / FM9

radbroman said:
I mostly play my FM9 through headphones, and have been considering a bunch of different options for when I want to get up and move around while playing. This would just be for fun/home use, I don't play gigs or do much recording. I do miss having an amp for these occasions, and the power amp + cab option is intriguing because I'd prefer not to have to use IRs like with monitors or FRFR. I mostly play high gain models (Peavey and EVH 5150s, JVM) but would like to get a good clean tone as well if possible. Would a 2x12 cab with a V30 and G12H-75 Creamback be a good solution? There are so many speaker options, it's almost paralyzing.
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I have an Avatar 2x12 with a hellatone 30 + hellatone 60
It’s ported at the sides. Sounds great!

IMG_1545.jpegIMG_1546.jpeg
 
radbroman said:
Nice! Looks very similar to the setup I want. Do you just plug a guitar cable from an output on the Axe-FX into the Power Stage and then a speaker cable from the Power Stage into the cabinet?
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I use a 90 degree angle xlr from fm3 output 1 to 90 degree TS input on the Ditto looper.
Then it’s a patch cable to the ps170 input and speaker cable to the cab.
 
A made a big mistake selling my old marshall 20/20 power amp. I didn't like the rack format but the thing could deliver like there is no tomorrow. It was also stereo so perfect for the axe driving 2 cabs. El84s sound a bit thinner but there was a deep switch to compensate.
 
@radbroman that cab would be fine as would most others. Remember that a cab will sound different if you move two inches in any direction (directional) and that the most high end is directly in front of your speaker and you’re set.
 
MrFusion182 said:
Hey!

I'm looking for a power amp to use with an axe FX 3... Ideally one where I don't have to turn the power amp simulation off in the amp block (as I may well be using an FM3 from now on and won't have the luxury of two amp blocks)

What is the best power amp to use that will allow me to play with power amp modelling on, and still get the "thud" from the cabinet like a tube amp? I've seen stuff about class d etc but I just wanna know what I should be using with a 4x12 or 2x12 cab
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I cannot recommend the Fryette Power Station enough. It’s immediately brought the analog-tube-texture back to the sound coming from my cab, and makes the speaker dance with the sound even at lower volumes than I typically played prior to having it.

I nearly resigned and didn’t get this thing, which to me was most definitely the finale frontier. I figured it couldn’t have been better than the tube worms I’d tried in the past, but… it simply does what I expect it to do. It put that warmth back into the signal, and of course does so much more. It has various power amp voicings, which I didn’t even realize till I got it. It doesn’t radically alter the tone.

…oh, and anyone telling you they used the Fryette PS with their power amp modeling off… take their words on this topic with less than a grain of salt.

Nice username.
 
Fractur3d said:
Try a BluGuitar Amp1 if you can.
Using the power amp section with the fm3 is amazing.
2x12 Avatar Forte - 1 hellatone 30 and 1 hellatone 60
Thumping and squealing, definitely pushing some air. Really surprised me.
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I hadn’t known this thing existed, so you got me intrigued. I ended up going with the thing I’d been considering, the Fryette PS100. I figured I’d nothing else I’d have a great attenuator, which I now do.

So far I’m a lot happier, but medium-gain palm mutes are still muffcabbage that on the real amp would still have been percussive even at lower volumes. 🤷🏻
 
I guess I will go on the record as disliking the Fryette Power Station, at least the 2A. I found it a surprisingly stiff and clean amp, like a tube hifi rather than a tube instrument amp. That sort of makes sense with the intended purpose of the thing, but when paired with a Fractal it left me in a very awkward spot. It's not "tubey enough" to substitute for the power amp sim in the Fractal - you absolutely have to leave that on. But it's not solid state flat either, so it is coloring the output of the Fractal a bit in a slightly arbitrary way. That means it's an enormously expensive way to amplify the Fractal in a not neutral way to get a sort of mild tube flavor added on. Additionally, I found that the Presence and Resonance knobs really did not have a very large range.

I guess in some sense, using the PS to amplify the Fractal will be very much like using it in load-box mode to re-amp a tube amp. It's not really something I want to do and it's an awfully expensive way to do it.
 
Promit said:
It's not "tubey enough" to substitute for the power amp sim in the Fractal
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I'd wager there is no physical tube power amp that'll substitute for the power amp sim in Fractal overall because Fractal's p.a. sims model a huge range of power amp circuits that I doubt any one physical tube circuit could even approach replicating (everything from hi compression / distortion / coloration in some models to clean low coloration in others and everything in between). To use a modeller to it's fullest, including a wide selection of pre / power amp characters + with the ability to push p.a. sections hard at low volume without the character loss associated with physical load boxes, imo, one needs a hi-headroom and as low coloration as possible p.a.. Real tubes just for a hint of spice?, ok, but being aware that any real tube spice added can detract from exact modelled accuracy in the case of some, or many amp models. Amp modelling ON generally imo with hi-headroom / low coloration tube power amps, with some exceptions where power amp modelling can make sense OFF with a physical tube amp: ie:
  • Matching a modelled rack pre with physical classic rack power amp (ie Axfx JMP-1 Model with p.a. modelling off into a physical Marshall 9200 stereo rack power amp, Axfx TriAxis model with p.a. modelling off into a physical Mesa 2:90:2 stereo rack power amp...
  • Specific Axfx preamp model (p.a. off) into a matched physical power section (ie Axfx Recto Pre (p.a. off) into return of a physical Recto ...). But on this, I have my doubts that, for situations where one wants the tone of a pushed power section, one can set up the modelled pre to drive the physical p.a. realistically with them placed on either side of an fx loop in an unrealistically decoupled manner. (maybe, but seems it would be hard to get the two inteacting accurately compared to either the full integrated physical amp (pre+p.a.), or the full integrated modelled amp with p.a. modelling on).
If there's no concern about compromised accuracy: have at it, do whatever you want.

Promit said:
But it's not solid state flat either, so it is coloring the output of the Fractal a bit in a slightly arbitrary way
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ya, they don't quite fit the whole modelling context, + my guess as to why we only see "FRFR" and "SS Pwr Amp + Cab" output
modes on the Axfx Amp block speaker tab - no "Tube Pwr Amp + Cab" option because that doesn't quite make sense. But having said that, I still gas for a Fryette LxII to power my Mesa cabs! 🤣
 
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sprint said:
I'd wager there is no physical tube power amp that'll substitute for the power amp sim in Fractal overall because Fractal's p.a. sims model a huge range of power amp circuits that I doubt any one physical tube circuit could even approach replicating (everything from hi compression / distortion / coloration in some models to clean low coloration in others and everything in between). To use a modeller to it's fullest, including a wide selection of pre / power amp characters + with the ability to push p.a. sections hard at low volume without the character loss associated with physical load boxes, imo, one needs a hi-headroom and as low coloration as possible p.a.. Real tubes just for a hint of spice?, ok, but being aware that any real tube spice added can detract from exact modelled accuracy in the case of some, or many amp models. Amp modelling ON generally imo with hi-headroom / low coloration tube power amps, with some exceptions where power amp modelling can make sense OFF with a physical tube amp: ie:
  • Matching a modelled rack pre with physical classic rack power amp (ie Axfx JMP-1 Model with p.a. modelling off into a physical Marshall 9200 stereo rack power amp, Axfx TriAxis model with p.a. modelling off into a physical Mesa 2:90:2 stereo rack power amp...
  • Specific Axfx preamp model (p.a. off) into a matched physical power section (ie Axfx Recto Pre (p.a. off) into return of a physical Recto ...). But on this, I have my doubts that, for situations where one wants the tone of a pushed power section, one can set up the modelled pre to drive the physical p.a. realistically with them placed on either side of an fx loop in an unrealistically decoupled manner. (maybe, but seems it would be hard to get the two inteacting accurately compared to either the full integrated physical amp (pre+p.a.), or the full integrated modelled amp with p.a. modelling on).
If there's no concern about compromised accuracy: have at it, do whatever you want.


ya, they don't quite fit the whole modelling context, + my guess as to why we only see "FRFR" and "SS Pwr Amp + Cab" output
modes on the Axfx Amp block speaker tab - no "Tube Pwr Amp + Cab" option because that doesn't quite make sense. But having said that, I still gas for a Fryette LxII to power my Mesa cabs! 🤣
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That was my experience as well in our rehearsal room using the return of engl tube amps. Don't get me wrong these amps rip and tear but they need a lot of work to play nice with fractal. At first my sound was somewhat phasey and thin due to EQ cancelations from the roaring power amp. Turning the power amp simulation off didn't help either. I bet engl amps get their tone and distortion using every tube available pre and power.
I think that a high headroom class D amp will do better justice to our rigs and be more consistent with the PA as well.

The other thing i wanted to address. Why use a guitar specific amp at all? Except some EQ controls PA amps will deliver more power with less money.
 
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zebric21 said:
The other thing i wanted to address. Why use a guitar specific amp at all? Except some EQ controls PA amps will deliver more power with less money.
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Using keyboard amps to monitor guitar modellers (FR/IRs) was a thing when I 1st started - harsh tone is what I remember.
 
zebric21 said:
That was my experience as well in our rehearsal room using the return of engl tube amps. Don't get me wrong these amps rip and tear but they need a lot of work to play nice with fractal. At first my sound was somewhat phasey and thin due to EQ cancelations from the roaring power amp. Turning the power amp simulation off didn't help either. I bet engl amps get their tone and distortion using every tube available pre and power.
I think that a high headroom class D amp will do better justice to our rigs and be more consistent with the PA as well.

The other thing i wanted to address. Why use a guitar specific amp at all? Except some EQ controls PA amps will deliver more power with less money.
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An update
Yesterday i tried using a +6db boost to the fractal output and the results where a lot better with the engl poweramp. The boost made the poweramp run at about 5-6 o clock with less tube coloration. More faithfull to my presets.
 
Currently running a Fender FR-10, but due to gigging more often, I'm thinking of adding a power amp + cab to my FM3 setup at home and just keeping the FR-10 for my small gigs.

I also have my birthday next month so planning to treat myself. :)

For power amp, I'm pretty much set on the Fryette PS2a, but for a cab, I really have no idea. From research, it seems like a 2x12 would work for the home, I can play at around -80 / -90db when the wife is out. I typically play a mixed style of stuff, mainly classic rock, 90's grunge, but also a bit of hendrix and occasionally Metallica, but nothing heavier. I know all cabs/speakers colour the tone somewhat, but what cab/speaker combination be the most versatile give my tone preferences ?

Thanks
 
leedm said:
From research, it seems like a 2x12 would work for the home, I can play at around -80 / -90db when the wife is out.
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A 2x12 is probably overkill at home; You're going to be way under the volume where it'll be doing what it's designed to do. Yes, people even use 4x12 cabinets but I'd look into a 1x10 or at most a 2x10. It'd take a big room at home before a 1x10 or 1x12 couldn't fill it at over 100dB.

I use a Princeton-sized amp (12W with 1x10) on stage often, and though it's miked, FOH tells me they only turn the mic up if someone else is borrowing the amp and doesn't know how to turn their guitar volume knob up. Otherwise it'll put out plenty of volume for a good sized room. There are 1x8s in the ELIS.8 FRFRs and here in my room at home they'll shake the walls and make birds fall from trees when I turn them up and they'll cover the same size room at the bar easily.
 
leedm said:
Currently running a Fender FR-10, but due to gigging more often, I'm thinking of adding a power amp + cab to my FM3 setup at home and just keeping the FR-10 for my small gigs.

I also have my birthday next month so planning to treat myself. :)

For power amp, I'm pretty much set on the Fryette PS2a, but for a cab, I really have no idea. From research, it seems like a 2x12 would work for the home, I can play at around -80 / -90db when the wife is out. I typically play a mixed style of stuff, mainly classic rock, 90's grunge, but also a bit of hendrix and occasionally Metallica, but nothing heavier. I know all cabs/speakers colour the tone somewhat, but what cab/speaker combination be the most versatile give my tone preferences ?

Thanks
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90dB seems pretty quiet for home use? I've been using the Niosh SPL app at home and the shows I've been going to; the shows measuring around 105dB-108dB. How are you measuring the level at home? One band measured around 101dB last Friday and I was surprised at how quiet it felt - looked like the frontman noticed too.

While a 112 can fill a room in a house as easily as a 212 (or 412), there's often some satisfaction in the larger cab setups. I used to have "band practice" (no drummer or bassist) using a 112 cab and it worked because we were pretty quiet. My current overkill setup at home is very enjoyable when I decide to use it. You'll notice a 112 vs a 212 doesn't really have a price change.

Honestly, most common speakers and cab configs are going to get the sounds you want. We perceive louder as "better" (thanks physics and neurology) so regardless of speaker, the louder you get to jam the more fun you're likely to have. Whether you bring the FM3 or not, go try some cabs ideally with the same amp in the same space. The FM3 has enough EQ onboard to reshape any little thing you may find later. It's worth noting that speaker placement in the room is going to have a large effect on how you hear it as well.

My suggestion is try a bunch of cabs, check your local used listings and start with a known commodity (fender, orange, marshall, avatar, mojotone etc) cab/speakers and enjoy playing. The rabbit hole that is gear can take away from that joy surprisingly quickly.
 
Budda said:
90dB seems pretty quiet for home use? I've been using the Niosh SPL app at home and the shows I've been going to; the shows measuring around 105dB-108dB. How are you measuring the level at home? One band measured around 101dB last Friday and I was surprised at how quiet it felt - looked like the frontman noticed too.

While a 112 can fill a room in a house as easily as a 212 (or 412), there's often some satisfaction in the larger cab setups. I used to have "band practice" (no drummer or bassist) using a 112 cab and it worked because we were pretty quiet. My current overkill setup at home is very enjoyable when I decide to use it. You'll notice a 112 vs a 212 doesn't really have a price change.

Honestly, most common speakers and cab configs are going to get the sounds you want. We perceive louder as "better" (thanks physics and neurology) so regardless of speaker, the louder you get to jam the more fun you're likely to have. Whether you bring the FM3 or not, go try some cabs ideally with the same amp in the same space. The FM3 has enough EQ onboard to reshape any little thing you may find later. It's worth noting that speaker placement in the room is going to have a large effect on how you hear it as well.

My suggestion is try a bunch of cabs, check your local used listings and start with a known commodity (fender, orange, marshall, avatar, mojotone etc) cab/speakers and enjoy playing. The rabbit hole that is gear can take away from that joy surprisingly quickly.
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Thanks for this, I’m just using a db meter app with my iPhone. I downloaded the Niosh app but it gives pretty identical readings. 90db in my home seems pretty loud to me. I can hear my guitar from my garden which is about 25 yards from my music room and has 2 glass walls in between, although I wouldn’t call it loud there, it’s a bit muffled and certainly wouldn’t cause any offence to the neighbours.

Have seen quite a few cheap cabs on Facebook marketplace so will probably do like you said and pick one up and see how it goes.
 
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