POLL: The most accurate PAF replica...

[Churchhill]

Not me. Closest I've come is I had a (new!) late 60s L5 back in high school and after, and when that got stolen, a 335 about that same vintage, which I still have (sad shape though).

I don't think of those as "PAFs" exactly though, just old Gibson humbuckers. I did really like both those guitars, but I don't trust any memories of them, was pretty long ago.

Yeah, everything I've played that was even close was long enough ago that I don't really remember and besides, my tastes and (hopefully) my abilities have evolved (or devolved) since then.

 

[Churchhill]

It's hard to know the answer. I have access to several 50's humbuckers-multiple "Holy Grail" 59 LPs. My favorite original 59 pickup has much in common with the standard Seymour Duncan 59 pickup. I believe this is a game of consumer perception-like the aging and relicing of guitars to make them look old and played. Most of that is crap, but it's not done to look real-it's done to meet the expectations of people that haven't seen a vintage instrument and want to own something that looks worn and vintage.

I agree. I'm not a big fan of relicing of any type, never have been, and never will be. I have a couple of older guitars ('65 being the oldest), and while I'm not really a collector, I do like to take care of my stuff. So, if there's a dent or a scratch, it's from honest wear.

What I'm really looking for here is something that captures in a similar way the character of what I'm hearing from a set of 2014 Gibson MHS pickups I have. I don't really want another set of MHS. I've got sets of Custombuckers and Burstbuckers that also have that "character" - maybe only what I expect from my idea of what a PAF sounds like, but I've heard that character in other's playing genuine '58-60 LPs and ES. So, I'm looking for something similar that I haven't tried before.

As for the SD '59s, yeah, they're really good pickups and I would expect are very close to the real thing. I have a set of those in another guitar, too, and they're not going anywhere.

Out of curiosity, what other sets have you found that have that character? Since you've had experience with the real deal, I'm especially curious about what winders come closest, realizing of course that any PAF may sound very different from any other.

I see a lot of very expensive winders that claim to recreate every aspect of a PAF and I see a lot of inexpensive winders claiming to get that sound by just winding a humbucker to 8.0k and using an unspecified type of alnico. I think there's been a lot of good recommendations in this thread that point to winders who are somewhere in the middle, those trying to make great vintage-sounding pickups without catering to specific demographics. I don't think there's anything wrong with winders like Throbak, ReWind, or Stephens Design, among others, who I think are legitimately making replicas, but there are some who seem to be making high priced toys for non-musicians, too. I'm just trying to figure out which is which, if you know what I mean.

Mostly, though, I just love to research and talk about all things guitar. My latest obsession has been with pickups, which is something I've researched more than a few times, along with many other things, over the almost 40 years I've been playing guitar. I still get excited when I see a guitar, even more so when I pick one up, and if I'm not playing, I'm likely thinking about some aspect of them. And I love to talk about it all!

 

[skolacki]

I wanted thick and greasy with some bark for my Ibanez AZ. @Andy Eagle recommended the Seth Lover and I had been wanting to try one so I did. It was good but not enough bark. Then I found out the guitar was running on a 250k volume pot. Ripped the guts out, new switch and pots and a traditional HSS setup and there it was. Since the inventor of the PAF worked with Seymour to make it, it might be more accurate than some others. Maybe so and maybe not. It’s a great pickup either way. I like it a lot.

 

[Churchhill]

I wanted thick and greasy with some bark for my Ibanez AZ. @Andy Eagle recommended the Seth Lover and I had been wanting to try one so I did. It was good but not enough bark. Then I found out the guitar was running on a 250k volume pot. Ripped the guts out, new switch and pots and a traditional HSS setup and there it was. Since the inventor of the PAF worked with Seymour to make it, it might be more accurate than some others. Maybe so and maybe not. It’s a great pickup either way. I like it a lot.

I haven't tried the Seth Lovers, but I really like the set of Antiquities I have!

I'd be curious about which models of Throbak @Andy Eagle has tried since he's mentioned those more than once, too.

 

[DJD100]

Not me, but was kinda hoping that some who had would chime in here... Closest I've gotten was some patent stickers, patent stamps, and T-Tops.

I own vintage PAF's, and have played many others, plus many modern clones. I got my vintage PAF's in the later 1970's when they were relatively newer, and much more affordable LOL!

As stated earlier, vintage PAF's are a moving target due to a number of variables, so...???

As long as the modern builder uses traditional materials and methods, and takes magnet aging into consideration (do you want your PAF clone to sound like a vintage PAF sounded in the 50's, 60's, 70, or currently etc...), any of the quality pickup builders mentioned can recreate the sound, while some builders go farther to recreate the look etc.

Finally, the only way to know for sure is to try them (which can be a PITA of course LOL!).

 

[Churchhill]

Finally, the only way to know for sure is to try them (which can be a PITA of course LOL!).

LOL! Yeah... hoping to avoid a little of that based on other's experience, but also fully expecting to try more than a few before I find what I'm looking for. I do know that I'm really enjoying the ones I already have, especially the Gibson MHS, Burstbucker, and Custombucker, and the BKP Stormy Monday and Mule. I have a few others, but those are my current favorites.

 

[Churchhill]

do you want your PAF clone to sound like a vintage PAF sounded in the 50's, 60's, 70, or currently etc...

So, that got me thinking a bit... I've caught myself saying several times that I want something that sounds "old" but I'm not entirely sure that's accurate. I think maybe not so much old as not modern, maybe not hi-fidelity in the modern sense as much as hi-fidelity in the older sense. PAFs seem to me to have a very broad range of sound from high to low, while some (definitely not all) more modern designs can seem flat and lifeless while still having a broad spectrum.

This seems to be a parallel with something else I've discovered, or rather reaffirmed, about what my tastes really are (see post #38 on p2). I've always thought I prefer A2 and it seems most of my current favorites are A2s. In general, I find I like the bounce of the softer bass and prefer the present but rounded highs. This is not to say that I don't like A5, but I do find it sometimes a little too strident. I also like A4 because it's somewhere in the middle. So, maybe "old" is what I'm looking for.

As an aside, this thread has really helped me put together my thoughts on the subject that I think will help once I start talking with a few winders about this. I mean I could just start ordering pickups, but most people here have mentioned having sometimes lengthy discussions with various winders about exactly what they were looking for and I think that is a great thing. When I start having those discussions, this thread has helped me consolidate my thoughts into something that will hopefully be useful to them.

 

[Budda]

LOL! Yeah... hoping to avoid a little of that based on other's experience, but also fully expecting to try more than a few before I find what I'm looking for. I do know that I'm really enjoying the ones I already have, especially the Gibson MHS, Burstbucker, and Custombucker, and the BKP Stormy Monday and Mule. I have a few others, but those are my current favorites.

Send this to Vineham, let him wind you something and see what ya think.

 

[Churchhill]

Send this to Vineham, let him wind you something and see what ya think.

Yep, he's on my short list who will get what I've compiled here.

 

[GuitarAng3l]

Interesting... Speaking of single coils, have you tried a P90 from Kloppmann? I may be in the market for some P90s, too, and Kloppmann's seem to be based on a set from '53, which is roughly what I'm looking for there.

Which sets of Ambers have you tried? The Spirit of 59 seems the most obvious for me, but their other sets look interesting, too. One of the guitars I'm looking to install these in is fairly bright, the other isn't dark, but not bright, either. Sometimes, a little more mids or a little more/less output is just the thing.

I am a HUGE! P90 fan, so yeah. I tried every P90 from the german builders. Personally I would go for the Amber OR! Häussel 56. Häussel has a 53 and 56 P90 set, the 56 is that what you imagine if you think of leslie west. The 53 are sounding more like the old jazz boxes, more open, less mids.
The Kloppmann 52 has more mids than the häussel 53, roughly the same output.
The Amber P90 Standard sits in the middle of them.

In which guitar are the P90s going?

I tried several Ambers as well as some customs. The Spirit of 59 are on the brighter end of the PAF spectrum, I would go with the O-Tone in the Bridge which is the Spirit with a touch more output and mids ( I love that PU!) and the Spirit of 59 in the neck. The spirit in the neck sounds really open, and not too dark. But also this depends on the sound youre going for. It has Alnico 4 magnets. If you like for example Slashs big and fat alnico 2 tone, the Spirits wont get you there.

 

[skunc]

I agree. I'm not a big fan of relicing of any type, never have been, and never will be. I have a couple of older guitars ('65 being the oldest), and while I'm not really a collector, I do like to take care of my stuff. So, if there's a dent or a scratch, it's from honest wear.

What I'm really looking for here is something that captures in a similar way the character of what I'm hearing from a set of 2014 Gibson MHS pickups I have. I don't really want another set of MHS. I've got sets of Custombuckers and Burstbuckers that also have that "character" - maybe only what I expect from my idea of what a PAF sounds like, but I've heard that character in other's playing genuine '58-60 LPs and ES. So, I'm looking for something similar that I haven't tried before.

As for the SD '59s, yeah, they're really good pickups and I would expect are very close to the real thing. I have a set of those in another guitar, too, and they're not going anywhere.

Out of curiosity, what other sets have you found that have that character? Since you've had experience with the real deal, I'm especially curious about what winders come closest, realizing of course that any PAF may sound very different from any other.

I see a lot of very expensive winders that claim to recreate every aspect of a PAF and I see a lot of inexpensive winders claiming to get that sound by just winding a humbucker to 8.0k and using an unspecified type of alnico. I think there's been a lot of good recommendations in this thread that point to winders who are somewhere in the middle, those trying to make great vintage-sounding pickups without catering to specific demographics. I don't think there's anything wrong with winders like Throbak, ReWind, or Stephens Design, among others, who I think are legitimately making replicas, but there are some who seem to be making high priced toys for non-musicians, too. I'm just trying to figure out which is which, if you know what I mean.

Mostly, though, I just love to research and talk about all things guitar. My latest obsession has been with pickups, which is something I've researched more than a few times, along with many other things, over the almost 40 years I've been playing guitar. I still get excited when I see a guitar, even more so when I pick one up, and if I'm not playing, I'm likely thinking about some aspect of them. And I love to talk about it all!I

IIRC, there was a MHS II set of pickups made, I can't tell you what the difference is between the MHS-but I have a friend that would know.

I've had a difficult time liking the recent Custombuckers and their derivatives- the "telecaster on steroids" phrase is killing me almost as quickly as the pickups themselves. The PAF pickups I've played have a pleasant warm low end that these pickups lack.

I've had good luck with OX4, & Bare Knuckle. Seymour Duncan Queen Buckers are so great- clean/EOB tones are inspiring. Dave Hinson (Killer Vintage) is selling "Better Buckers" in A5 and A2 configurations. A little hotter than standard, but they sound great (A5s preferred) and I always use the volume knob-- I highly recommend starting with all knobs on 5 and setting up some sounds. Most of the classic players we all love to hear never put their knobs all the way up. Honorable Mention - Brandon Wound, Guilty Pleasure- EJ DiMarzio.

 

[painkiller]

I’m happy with Häussel 1959, BKP Mule or Bulldog Vintage PAF. I don’t know but I believe that Bulldog went out of busines, unfortunately.

 

[Andy Eagle]

I haven't tried the Seth Lovers, but I really like the set of Antiquities I have!

I'd be curious about which models of Throbak @Andy Eagle has tried since he's mentioned those more than once, too.

All of them

 

[Thomas Obester]

I remember first hearing about WCR about 10 years ago, loved the demos I heard. I noticed that their website still has a 2013 copyright date on it and was wondering if they're still around.

they are still around. Jim is an older guy and he does it by hand alone. try those sometimes, you won´t be sorry

 

[Andy Eagle]

One thing worth mentioning is a lot of small volume guys are not great at replicating their pickups consistently . Some well known guys put out pickups that could be different models as the same thing. Not all pickups with similar DC and parts sound the same.

 

[Dixiethedog]

Whilst on about PAF style pickups, yesterday I stuck some PAF style pups into a spare Les Paul (Studio, complete with horrible quick connect board).
The guitar had the usual Gibson 490R and (I think?) a 498T pickups. Harsh sounding but OK for heavy rocky stuff.
The first thing I noticed (with the new pickups) was that almost all of my FM3 presets had to have the gain turned down a lot from what I had been using. But the sound is a lot more pleasing to my ears.

The pickups used are some from an inexpensive maker here in the UK in the link;

https://www.arundelguitars.com/product-page/custom-made-p-a-f-style-humbucker-pair

 

[Budda]

Whilst on about PAF style pickups, yesterday I stuck some PAF style pups into a spare Les Paul (Studio, complete with horrible quick connect board).
The guitar had the usual Gibson 490R and (I think?) a 498T pickups. Harsh sounding but OK for heavy rocky stuff.
The first thing I noticed (with the new pickups) was that almost all of my FM3 presets had to have the gain turned down a lot from what I had been using. But the sound is a lot more pleasing to my ears.

The pickups used are some from an inexpensive maker here in the UK in the link;

https://www.arundelguitars.com/product-page/custom-made-p-a-f-style-humbucker-pair

You had to turn down the gain going from 498 to paf? Interesting.

I have a high output A8 pickup in one of my guitars, I will unscientifically check this out haha.

 

[Sixstring]

You could always just get the real deal!

Reverb

 

[Vio]

I would be nice to hear a demo like the one below for the pickups you mentioned in the poll. (16k for an original pair?!?)

 

[Dixiethedog]

You had to turn down the gain going from 498 to paf? Interesting.

I have a high output A8 pickup in one of my guitars, I will unscientifically check this out haha.

Thinking about this, I may have increased my monitor volume and then compensated by dropping the gain and adjusting (as an example) the MV in the amp block. I think I might have been trying to increase the headroom of the amp sound. I feel stupid to admit this at my age, but I have also only recently started to learn how to turn the volume and tone knobs down on my guitar for different dynamics. I always thought that they had to be set to 10! LOL.