Plugged Axe Fx into my PA:a system, got a very weak sound

Savrot

Savrot

Member
So i just got back from something very disappointing. I've been bragging about my newly bought Axe Fx to my bandmates, telling them it was gods gift to the guitar world. So naturally, when we got to our practice room they asked me for a big demonstration.

Of course i said! Not knowing what was about to happen. I plugged it in directly into our mixer and the sound that greeted me was nothing short of horrendous. It sounded like the signal was weak and the sound itself had NO power what so ever. I noticed my unimpressed bandmates look and i started to desperetaly try to fix it but nothing i could do fixed it.

This is completely my fault of course, i thought the Axe Fx was a "plug and play" unit. So i've haven't learn how to plug it in properly.

I need a crash course on how to do this. Links, videos or just you writing would be really appreciated.

Here is is our rig:
Speakers: https://www.thomann.de/se/yamaha_dxr_12.htm

Sub: https://www.thomann.de/se/yamaha_dsr_118w.htm?ref=search_rslt_Yamaha+DSR118W_256224_0

Mixer: https://www.thomann.de/se/yamaha_mg10_xu.htm?ref=search_rslt_Yamaha+MG10XU_333823_0

I plugged the Axe Fx into the -10dBu1/4 jack, both left and right of Output 1 into the 7/8 channel.
 
Ha-ha...you're not the only one with that kind of experience here. If I would now instruct myself before my first demonstration to my bandmates, the first thing I would tell myself would be to set the low cut in the cab block to 100 Hz and the high cut to 8 kHz as a starting point. Then I would go back to the amp block and tweak it to taste. Clean sounds are great just out of the box but high gain needs these cuts.

I doubt that you don't have enough power available with your equipment and Axe FX can sound good enough with about every piece of crap. The problem are mostly these extreme frequencies you don't usually get with a real guitar cab. However the mics used to record the IRs so close to the cab record also some frequencies we don't usually hear when playing live with a band.
 
don_joe said:
Ha-ha...you're not the only one with that kind of experience here. If I would now instruct myself before my first demonstration to my bandmates, the first thing I would tell myself would be to set the low cut in the cab block to 100 Hz and the high cut to 8 kHz as a starting point. Then I would go back to the amp block and tweak it to taste. Clean sounds are great just out of the box but high gain needs these cuts.

I doubt that you don't have enough power available with your equipment and Axe FX can sound good enough with about every piece of crap. The problem are mostly these extreme frequencies you don't usually get with a real guitar cab. However the mics used to record the IRs so close to the cab record also some frequencies we don't usually hear when playing live with a band.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I will try that :)
 
Go into the rehearsal space by yourself and play a backing track with bass, keys, drums etc through the PA. Then dial a patch in with the Axefx running into the PA and the backing track playing at a decent volume. Make sure power amp and speaker emulation are on obviously. And yes the high and low cuts in the speaker block are the right thing to do... adjust to taste. You'll end up with a gig/rehearsal ready patch that is to be used at full volume.
 
You didn't mention a sound check so no telling how the mixer channel you plugged into was configured. Was the input gain on mixer set appropriately and eq'ed flat? Mixer effects turned off?
 
^^^ what fret said.

I didn't catch what your normal FRFR monitors are....

My similar experience was the making patches via QSC K-10 speaker that sounded great, but I didn't know it wasn't really FRFR. It was accentuating bass. I learned of this when we went in a studio and I gave direct outs, and my parts all sounded thin and tinny.

Then I bought Atomic CLRs. I haven't been back in the studio since then to know if that resolved the situation.
 
factory presets should sound big if every thing is set up properly. you should not have to tweak anything for it to sound fairly good plugged straight in to any PA board if settings are gain staged and EQed flat. what is your rig set up and how and what was connected? any external controllers, foot pedal, exp pedal? Was this AXE FX bought new or used?
 
The last thing I did was go direct to the board. I always mic'd my rig, since I got the AXE. When I finally decided to try it I followed advice in the forums, on how to use channel 2 to the guitar cab and channel 1 to FOH. I made sure I had enough volume leaving the AXE. My master volume is set as directed to where I get a little red led ever so slightly. My AXE outputs on the front are straight up 50%. I'm connected with 1 XLR cable out of the AXE channel 1 to an XLR line in on the mixer. My mixer gain is set at 4, which gives me about a -3db on the mixer meter. Different mixer's gain may have to be set higher. (Behringer X32)
I found you have to set an EQ block at the end of the chain and a loop block under it bypassing the EQ for channel 1 so channel 2 can go to the guitar cab, without the effects of the settings of the EQ block. Then I cranked the PA to stage level and EQ'd channel one, using the final EQ block. I have been extremely satisfied with the results and have not used a mic on the cab since.
I added a pick of one of my presets and EQ for reference. Sorry for the crappy quality. Your EQ settings will probably be different since you are using 12" tops and I'm 15". Also my mixer EQ for the guitar channel is hi pass (low cut) 100hz, low pass (high cut) 10,000 hz.

20161018_163142.jpg 20161018_163157.jpg
 
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Tommy Tempest said:
The last thing I did was go direct to the board. I always mic'd my rig, since I got the AXE. When I finally decided to try it I followed advice in the forums, on how to use channel 2 to the guitar cab and channel 1 to FOH. I made sure I had enough volume leaving the AXE. My master volume is set as directed to where I get a little red led ever so slightly. My AXE outputs on the front are straight up 50%. I'm connected with 1 XLR cable out of the AXE channel 1 to an XLR line in on the mixer. My mixer gain is set at 4, which gives me about a -3db on the mixer meter. Different mixer's gain may have to be set higher. (Behringer X32)
I found you have to set an EQ block at the end of the chain and a loop block under it bypassing the EQ for channel 1 so channel 2 can go to the guitar cab, without the effects of the settings of the EQ block. Then I cranked the PA to stage level and EQ'd channel one, using the final EQ block. I have been extremely satisfied with the results and have not used a mic on the cab since.
I added a pick of one of my presets and EQ for reference. Sorry for the crappy quality. Your EQ settings will probably be different since you are using 12" tops and I'm 15". Also my mixer EQ for the guitar channel is hi pass (low cut) 100hz, low pass (high cut) 10,000 hz.

View attachment 35664 View attachment 35665
Click to expand...


Good post, good insight.
 
db2112 said:
You didn't mention a sound check so no telling how the mixer channel you plugged into was configured. Was the input gain on mixer set appropriately and eq'ed flat? Mixer effects turned off?
Click to expand...

Well, it doesn't have an gain knob on the 1/4 channels. I made a picture showing you how i plugged it in.
 

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6stringscott said:
^^^ what fret said.

I didn't catch what your normal FRFR monitors are....

My similar experience was the making patches via QSC K-10 speaker that sounded great, but I didn't know it wasn't really FRFR. It was accentuating bass. I learned of this when we went in a studio and I gave direct outs, and my parts all sounded thin and tinny.

Then I bought Atomic CLRs. I haven't been back in the studio since then to know if that resolved the situation.
Click to expand...

I'm unsure what FRFR monitors are. I only used the Yamaha DXR12 speakers and the sub.
 
paranoid said:
factory presets should sound big if every thing is set up properly. you should not have to tweak anything for it to sound fairly good plugged straight in to any PA board if settings are gain staged and EQed flat. what is your rig set up and how and what was connected? any external controllers, foot pedal, exp pedal? Was this AXE FX bought new or used?
Click to expand...

The Axe FX is brand new. Maybe it's the gain stage then? Is the gain set on the Axe Fx or on the mixertable? Since my mixing table does not have a gain knob on my 1/4 channel.

The set up is very simple, we plug the speakers into the sub, and then we connect the sub to the mixer. I did not use any pedals, just the axe fx.

I felt when i was playing that it didn't respond well to my playing. I play extremly clean, so when we sound checked with Dream Theaters "the dark eternal night" It wasn't until i tapped that i noticed that it didn't respond right. I couldn't get the tapping to sound full, it was almost like i couldn't get the tapping to sound full and rich.
 
Tommy Tempest said:
The last thing I did was go direct to the board. I always mic'd my rig, since I got the AXE. When I finally decided to try it I followed advice in the forums, on how to use channel 2 to the guitar cab and channel 1 to FOH. I made sure I had enough volume leaving the AXE. My master volume is set as directed to where I get a little red led ever so slightly. My AXE outputs on the front are straight up 50%. I'm connected with 1 XLR cable out of the AXE channel 1 to an XLR line in on the mixer. My mixer gain is set at 4, which gives me about a -3db on the mixer meter. Different mixer's gain may have to be set higher. (Behringer X32)
I found you have to set an EQ block at the end of the chain and a loop block under it bypassing the EQ for channel 1 so channel 2 can go to the guitar cab, without the effects of the settings of the EQ block. Then I cranked the PA to stage level and EQ'd channel one, using the final EQ block. I have been extremely satisfied with the results and have not used a mic on the cab since.
I added a pick of one of my presets and EQ for reference. Sorry for the crappy quality. Your EQ settings will probably be different since you are using 12" tops and I'm 15". Also my mixer EQ for the guitar channel is hi pass (low cut) 100hz, low pass (high cut) 10,000 hz.

View attachment 35664 View attachment 35665
Click to expand...
Thank you! I will try and play around with those setting. Although i'm beginning to suspect that it's my mixer table that is the root problem, since i can't control the gain on it. I will only go FOH, since my rig need to be really portable, so i wont do your nice set up. I maybe do it in the future though :)
 
fret said:
Go into the rehearsal space by yourself and play a backing track with bass, keys, drums etc through the PA. Then dial a patch in with the Axefx running into the PA and the backing track playing at a decent volume. Make sure power amp and speaker emulation are on obviously. And yes the high and low cuts in the speaker block are the right thing to do... adjust to taste. You'll end up with a gig/rehearsal ready patch that is to be used at full volume.
Click to expand...

How do check if the power amp and speaker emulation are on? Is the power amp the "Amp" in the layout screen, and the "Cab" the speaker emulation?
 
there is a global setting I believe in the I/O menu( not at unit to look) also in the amp block the sag setting when turned all the way down turns off the power amp, this should be on by default if it is a new unit. since the unit is new I would try several presets at volume, toggle thru some different cab IR's, and if no success I would try a mono input in the mixing board and see if there is some phase issue with left and right in the same channel.
 
Savrot said:
Thank you! I will try and play around with those setting. Although i'm beginning to suspect that it's my mixer table that is the root problem, since i can't control the gain on it. I will only go FOH, since my rig need to be really portable, so i wont do your nice set up. I maybe do it in the future though :)
Click to expand...
Lots of AXE owners only go FOH and use either a monitor or in-ears on stage with great success.
After looking at your pic, I see there are no gain knobs for 5/6 and 7/8. So for a test try plugging into channel 3 and 4. From the pic I also see they can take 1/4 inch. This way you can adjust the gain knobs up to where the mixer meter is showing the proper signal without clipping (-6 to -3). Set the mic/line switch on 3 and 4 to line and kick in the hi pass, so you kill the boom from 80hz and lower. Then, if you want stereo, pan channel 3 left and channel 4 right. I run my system mono, with 1 cable going to 1 channel on the board, because most pro sound systems are set up for mono. Otherwise, in several cases, the stage left will hear different than stage right. If you cannot use 3 and 4 because they are used by microphones, you may have to turn the channel volume way up to get the meters close to 0. Then make sure you are at stage volume and not bedroom volume. Let me know how this works.
 
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