Please teach me about fender amps!

pharmd07

pharmd07

Experienced
Prior to buying the AxeFx years ago, I was always a Marshall (or similar) kind of guy. I played heads through 4x12 closed back cabinets. That's what my ear is attuned to.

Because of this, Fender amps seem alien to me. I don't get them. I don't know how to dial them to get what many would consider a quintessential Fender tone. I don't blame the amps (or amp models) as I realize it's my total lack of experience that is holding me back.

I need to broaden my horizons!

The AxeFx is such a great teaching tool in that it helps guitarists learn how to get different sounds. But I think I need some help with Fender amps (and Dumble amps too, but let's save that for another discussion). Any general advice?

Note that my guitars are a Carvin California Carved Top with Bareknuckle Holy Diver pickups in both positions (with coil splitters), and a Carvin Bolt T (strat copy with tremelo) with Fishman Fluence single coils.

Some questions, or thoughts that I have:

1) I bought cab pack 15 because I wanted good IRs that were representative of the kind of speakers one would use with Fender amps. Wow, these sound so much different that my other IRs I have of 4x12 cabinets. The speakers seem to have more low and high end in them compared to a 4x12 and sound dramatically different. They can get very fuzzy when the amp is pushed hard. But this seems to be representative of most IRs of open back cabinets that I've ever heard. Once again, I know the problem isn't the IR, rather it's what I'm used to hearing. I can pair a Fender amp with a 4x12 IR, but that makes the amp sound more like a Marshall, at least to my ear.

2) Fender amps (non-master volume) tend to behave differently when turned up compared to a Marshall non-master volume such as a Plexi. The Fenders seem to get much more flubby. I turn the bass pretty much all the way off to deal with this.

3) Do most Fender amp players use pedals to get their overdrive/distortion? Do they set their amp clean and use the pedal? Set the amp at moderate breakup? To my ear, pedals sound so much more mid focused compared to a cranked Plexi. Once again, not what I'm used to hearing. I've never really used overdrive/distortion pedals in real amps as I've always relied on the amp's distortion.

I truly want to learn how to use the Fender amp models to their fullest capability. I feel like I need to do this just to make myself a more versatile player and to better understand how to get different sounds. I know the AxeFx models are as accurate as can be. I just need to learn how to use them.

If needed, I can post clips of what I come up with. It would be great to get some critiques.

Thanks! (And sorry if this belongs in the Lounge. I wasn't sure where to post it)
 
firstly, mess around with and try the "Magic Six" settings, which seem to work universally. I'm fairly sure Fender amps are almost always played with single coil guitars, so bear in mind that humbuckers may be a bit more woofy than you expect jamming with a Fender. See this link for the PDF that explains the "Magic Six" settings.

http://www.singlecoil.com/docs/magic-six.pdf

Edit: The settings themselves (so you don't have to click) are below. But the article itself provides an interesting theory into WHY the Magic Six works so well (and universally).

"Volume to 6, Treble to 6, Middle to 3 and Bass to 2 (6, 6, and 3x2=6). Bright should be on, reverb set for two and master volume (if one) set so that you can be heard above the drums without drenching the vocals."
 
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The way I use Fender combos is this: I turn the volume up just to the point of breakup, this gives a clean tome when the guitar is turned down and a nice fat bluesy tone when turned up. The use an overdrive to push the preamp for leads. YMMV but I think this is a common way to use them.
 
depends alot on amp model...but if u think about twinreverb or similar models...its pretty common to turn the bass almost all the way down. and they have also alot of high end so treble could even go down to 2.5-3 ofcurse all depending on your volume level and guitar.
 
G'day Pharm,

Don't forget 'low pass' in the cab - sometimes much more effective than lowering the bass.

Pauly

pharmd07 said:
Prior to buying the AxeFx years ago, I was always a Marshall (or similar) kind of guy. I played heads through 4x12 closed back cabinets. That's what my ear is attuned to.

Because of this, Fender amps seem alien to me. I don't get them. I don't know how to dial them to get what many would consider a quintessential Fender tone. I don't blame the amps (or amp models) as I realize it's my total lack of experience that is holding me back.

I need to broaden my horizons!

The AxeFx is such a great teaching tool in that it helps guitarists learn how to get different sounds. But I think I need some help with Fender amps (and Dumble amps too, but let's save that for another discussion). Any general advice?

Note that my guitars are a Carvin California Carved Top with Bareknuckle Holy Diver pickups in both positions (with coil splitters), and a Carvin Bolt T (strat copy with tremelo) with Fishman Fluence single coils.

Some questions, or thoughts that I have:

1) I bought cab pack 15 because I wanted good IRs that were representative of the kind of speakers one would use with Fender amps. Wow, these sound so much different that my other IRs I have of 4x12 cabinets. The speakers seem to have more low and high end in them compared to a 4x12 and sound dramatically different. They can get very fuzzy when the amp is pushed hard. But this seems to be representative of most IRs of open back cabinets that I've ever heard. Once again, I know the problem isn't the IR, rather it's what I'm used to hearing. I can pair a Fender amp with a 4x12 IR, but that makes the amp sound more like a Marshall, at least to my ear.

2) Fender amps (non-master volume) tend to behave differently when turned up compared to a Marshall non-master volume such as a Plexi. The Fenders seem to get much more flubby. I turn the bass pretty much all the way off to deal with this.

3) Do most Fender amp players use pedals to get their overdrive/distortion? Do they set their amp clean and use the pedal? Set the amp at moderate breakup? To my ear, pedals sound so much more mid focused compared to a cranked Plexi. Once again, not what I'm used to hearing. I've never really used overdrive/distortion pedals in real amps as I've always relied on the amp's distortion.

I truly want to learn how to use the Fender amp models to their fullest capability. I feel like I need to do this just to make myself a more versatile player and to better understand how to get different sounds. I know the AxeFx models are as accurate as can be. I just need to learn how to use them.

If needed, I can post clips of what I come up with. It would be great to get some critiques.

Thanks! (And sorry if this belongs in the Lounge. I wasn't sure where to post it)
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A huge thank you to everyone who has chimed in!

Funny thing...I think I have that book, "Fender Amps The First 50 Years." IIRC, my wife bought it for me a couple years ago. I haven't gotten around to reading it yet. Now is the time!

So I've been messing around with the Deluxe Verb model this morning and I'm getting really good results (I think). I've tried a different approach. Normally I just use an IR with an SM57, I rarely make mix IRs. While this works pretty well with british style speakers, I find American style speakers to get really harsh with just a SM57. So I took two IRs from the Universal Storage 2 cab pack and made a mix IR in Cab Lab 3 (1x12 Deluxe Verb 160 at 0 dB and 1x12 Deluxe Verb 57 at -3 dB). This mix IR, combined with some low cut at 80-100 Hz sounds really good. I'm off to work in a few minutes, but I'll try to post a clip tomorrow to get some opinions/suggestions.

Thanks again guys!
 
Wolfenstein98k said:
I'm fairly sure Fender amps are almost always played with single coil guitars, so bear in mind that humbuckers may be a bit more woofy than you expect jamming with a Fender.
Click to expand...

Don't tell Derrek Trucks :)

The Twin has been *the* stage and house amp for decades. It can do everything from country to blues to hard rock.

(I saw the band Head East use a Dual Showman when their Plexi went down during a show. They dimed it and did a convincing hard rock overdrive. Was through the same cab as the Plexi though.)
 
This thread has been a good read. I wish we had more threads here to talk about about the amps in the AF2 especially from people who have real world experience with them. I always learn something and I can argue that it makes me a better player as it gets me juiced up to go home and try that model out or to try the new technique I just read about.

I am often curious about the origins of the amps like this one is Marshall derivative or that one is based on a Mesa which I know you can read in the AF2 wiki but that usually leaves me with more questions. I am also equally if not more curious on how close amps are to their real world counterparts. Like how close IS the SLO 100, Mark IV, Uberschal or Plexi etc to the real thing. Is having the AF2 75%, 85% or even 90-95% like having a HBE (the amp that is). Would also be good to read tips from the real-world experts on how to dial tones in on the amps etc....I could talk gear all day long!
 
Fender Amps were just great and there are some outstanding Fenderish Tones in the AxeFx. Cliff did an "axecellent" job with the fenders. I love them, especially the Vibroverb, Tremolux (Brownface), SuperReverb and the Bassman 65 which is my all time fav in the axe.

I mostly use internal cab sims, no UR cabinet files - they work for me and I get decent results.....

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-recordings/81687-vibrolux-clean-plus-patch.html (I guess I used the Tremolux here, miss-spelling - sorry....but I love that breakup......so "real" from what I know about those amps......knowing them well!)
 
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