Pick attack on cleans

I'm not sure if you are talking about that low-frequency plucky thump in the recording. If you are, maybe you are looking for the low resonant frequency. In the amp block, there is a tab called Speaker. The knob i'm talking about is the first knob in axe-edit, Low Res Freq.

If I remember correctly, I've read of users tuning that parameter to specific IRs to replicate how a speaker cab reacts. Something about the spacial volume and build of a cab causes a specific peak in bass response. Apparently, every cab is different. Some IR manufacturers list the Resonant frequency. When they don't, users would sweep the low resonance frequency until they could hear and feel that thump show up. This focuses on the inherent low resonance of the IR, that would be brought out by the structure of the real-life cabinet resonating. I just tried that and I got a more thumpy transient from my pick attack on clean tones.
 
i think we may have nailed what's going on here.

a mic picks up a single point on the speaker/cab. our ears hear an entire speaker/cab. that right there is a major difference. spatial qualities, tone, and many other things are different between those 2 things.

so "amp in the room" really just means "physics of sound." a single mic can't capture all of that, as noted and known, therefore that mic'd sound going through a speaker won't sound the same (algebra!).

so i started thinking about needing somewhat of a "surround sound" speaker setup to mimic this. perhaps a speaker in front and behind, and the one in the back maybe slightly delayed? we'd have to recreate a "live room" sound from sterile elements - we need to assume the room you're in is completely dead and the sound only comes from the speakers.

but that never is an issue to me, because the room i'm in when playing the mic/IR signal has it's own physical properties, and i truly feel "amp in the room" because i have sound interacting in that room.

but again, this is about a specific sensation coming from a real cab. the pick attack mentioned in this thread specifically could very well be coming from a combination of things heard from a guitar cab that a single mic very close doesn't pick up.

that's why the solution to hearing a real cab with the Axe or any modeler is to use a real cab with your modeler. the issue is that sound reproduction technology isn't there yet to full capture an output device like a guitar cab. some say far-field IRs get you close, but not exactly.

our ears are amazing things. our brain interprets things a certain way, and every person hears the same thing differently due to habit, preference, opinion and physicality/ability/experience. we simply can't model what the human ears pick up just yet.
 
chris said:
i think we may have nailed what's going on here.

a mic picks up a single point on the speaker/cab. our ears hear an entire speaker/cab. that right there is a major difference. spatial qualities, tone, and many other things are different between those 2 things.

so "amp in the room" really just means "physics of sound." a single mic can't capture all of that, as noted and known, therefore that mic'd sound going through a speaker won't sound the same (algebra!).

so i started thinking about needing somewhat of a "surround sound" speaker setup to mimic this. perhaps a speaker in front and behind, and the one in the back maybe slightly delayed? we'd have to recreate a "live room" sound from sterile elements - we need to assume the room you're in is completely dead and the sound only comes from the speakers.

but that never is an issue to me, because the room i'm in when playing the mic/IR signal has it's own physical properties, and i truly feel "amp in the room" because i have sound interacting in that room.

but again, this is about a specific sensation coming from a real cab. the pick attack mentioned in this thread specifically could very well be coming from a combination of things heard from a guitar cab that a single mic very close doesn't pick up.

that's why the solution to hearing a real cab with the Axe or any modeler is to use a real cab with your modeler. the issue is that sound reproduction technology isn't there yet to full capture an output device like a guitar cab. some say far-field IRs get you close, but not exactly.

our ears are amazing things. our brain interprets things a certain way, and every person hears the same thing differently due to habit, preference, opinion and physicality/ability/experience. we simply can't model what the human ears pick up just yet.
Click to expand...
If you didn't read the thread ;), @joegold is using guitar cabs.
 
zedeloc said:
I'm not sure if you are talking about that low-frequency plucky thump in the recording. If you are, maybe you are looking for the low resonant frequency. In the amp block, there is a tab called Speaker. The knob i'm talking about is the first knob in axe-edit, Low Res Freq.

If I remember correctly, I've read of users tuning that parameter to specific IRs to replicate how a speaker cab reacts. Something about the spacial volume and build of a cab causes a specific peak in bass response. Apparently, every cab is different. Some IR manufacturers list the Resonant frequency. When they don't, users would sweep the low resonance frequency until they could hear and feel that thump show up. This focuses on the inherent low resonance of the IR, that would be brought out by the structure of the real-life cabinet resonating. I just tried that and I got a more thumpy transient from my pick attack on clean tones.
Click to expand...
Apparently he's already tried it.
 
I think chris's post was more of an overview of these types of issues that surround these sonic problems we're all dealing with from time to time, rather than a one-size-fits-all solution.
 
Jason Scott said:
@joegold In the Amp block's Dynamics tab, set the Compressor to 100, Ratio to 2.000, Hardness to 100 and Time to 10.00 ms.
Click to expand...

You mean the Preamp CF Compress parameters?
Or are you talking about Output Comp?
Probably the former and thyat's what I'll try first.
But please clarify.
 
joegold said:
You mean the Preamp CF Compress parameters?
Or are you talking about Output Comp?
Probably the former and thyat's what I'll try first.
But please clarify.
Click to expand...

OK. Tried it.
Almost blew my cab by setting Preamp CF Compress to 100%.
I assumed you meant Harndess at 10 because it doesn't go to 100.
The resulting tone does nothing to address the thing I'm talking about and basically ruins the preset.
But thanks anyway.
Why did you think that those particular parameters would be helpful?

At any rate, I'm pretty sure I stated up-thread that I've already tried all the Compression parameters (as well as all the dynamic and attack parameters) in the Amp Block to no avail.
 
joegold said:
OK. Tried it.
Almost blew my cab by setting Preamp CF Compress to 100%.
I assumed you meant Harndess at 10 because it doesn't go to 100.
The resulting tone does nothing to address the thing I'm talking about and basically ruins the preset.
But thanks anyway.
Why did you think that those particular parameters would be helpful?
Click to expand...

Since I'm not using a real cab, I have no way of knowing how it's going to affect yours. That setting is suited to my setup, however you might try turning it down and tweaking it before deciding it doesn't address the effect you're talking about.

joegold said:
At any rate, I'm pretty sure I stated up-thread that I've already tried all the Compression parameters (as well as all the dynamic and attack parameters) in the Amp Block to no avail.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt you have, though there are certain combinations of parameters that work in tandem that you may not have tried.
 
Last edited:
zedeloc said:
I'm not sure if you are talking about that low-frequency plucky thump in the recording. If you are, maybe you are looking for the low resonant frequency. In the amp block, there is a tab called Speaker. The knob i'm talking about is the first knob in axe-edit, Low Res Freq.

If I remember correctly, I've read of users tuning that parameter to specific IRs to replicate how a speaker cab reacts. Something about the spacial volume and build of a cab causes a specific peak in bass response. Apparently, every cab is different. Some IR manufacturers list the Resonant frequency. When they don't, users would sweep the low resonance frequency until they could hear and feel that thump show up. This focuses on the inherent low resonance of the IR, that would be brought out by the structure of the real-life cabinet resonating. I just tried that and I got a more thumpy transient from my pick attack on clean tones.
Click to expand...

My cabs are open back 1 X 12 with EVM-12Ls in them.
12Ls have a published low res freq of 55hz.
Jay Mitchell told me once that I should set the low res freq on the Spkr Pg to 65 hz, so that's what I do.
Since guitars in standard tuning don't go as low as 65 hz this setting does very little.
When I put the low res freq higher around 100hz it just makes the notes near low A louder.
This setting appears to not do much for any notes that are higher than the low res freq and I notice the lack of this pop across the entire range of the guitar, not just the bass notes.
The times that I've tried determining the exact low freq res of my cab(s) I've never been convinced that I was doing it correctly since there are so many things in my untreated room that resonate with my cabs.
So I just leave it at 65hz.

I've also messed around with all the other parameters on that page to no avail.
Again, most of those don't affect hyper-clean tones much anyway, in my experience.
 
trancegodz said:
Try setting the definition to -1.
Click to expand...

Joe G already indicated that this didn't address his specific "note pop" desires. However, I tried your suggestion, and found it really helped get me where I'm trying to go, regarding MY "note pop" attack issues.

So, big thanks, Trancegodz!
 
The wire came loose on your neck pickup and the coil either split or you're only hearing the middle pickup without realizing it. Bam! I'm awesome! \m/ü\m/
 
@joegold I too have noticed what I've attributed to pick attack sound on clean tones since I got my Ax8 and now on my AxeFx3, mostly when I string mute single notes runs. Link "Instead you get this nice "bong" and almost piano-like low notes." Not sure if this will have any impact on what we are hearing but it does sound like what you describing. Only problem is it's likely will only show up in the AxeFx3 because of the CPU demand.
 
There are so many avenues here...but if I start at my beginnings, playing jazz I liked a Fender amp, open back and a 15 that moved. Didn’t like stiff cones, liked lighter cones with a bit of displacement(xmax).
I use frfr and experiment with cabs. Own the axe 2 and 3...most folks agree the feel has improved. But the 2 is wonderful...I look forward to the next update for the 2 and playing with the speaker compliance setting. anyway good luck Joe chasing down the tone! :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom