Paul Reed Smith Ends the Tonewood Debate

I still have to watch the videos but I’m a believer anyway. Some of these posts imply that Paul Reed Smith is just a bullshit artist talking up wood and tone in order to sell expensive guitars. This is a guy who has made 1000’s of guitars with his own hands. He is a true craftsman. I think he is making money, but I don’t think money is his primary motivation, based on watching interviews over the years. I’ve met him at a small seminar but I don’t really know him. I do believe he knows what he talking about far more than most people, and is a true expert on guitars and tone.
Paul Reed Smith makes great and beautiful guitars. I think people are talking about it with some kind of hate, because he implicitly compared acoustic instruments and microphones with guitar pickups. Other than that bad argument, the man deserves much respect for his crafstmanship.
 
Did I say I couldn't hear the difference? How can you tell for sure the "woods sound different"? What if the guy playing just played harder, softer, pressed the note in a floppy way etc.? I mean, do you think this is scientific?

But supposedly this is the most scientific test made and we know for sure the guitar bodies sound different solely because of the type of wood. What would say is the percentage of wood influence on the guitars tone? Honestly.
Did I say I couldn't hear the difference? How can you tell for sure the "wood sound different"? What if the guy playing just played harder, softer, pressed the note in a floppy way etc. which changed the sound? I mean, do you think this is really scientific?

But supposedly this is the most scientific test made and we know for sure the guitar bodies sound different solely because of the type of wood. What would say is the percentage of wood influence on the guitars tone? Honestly.
 
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Romo82, I think you are right! Xylophone would have a heart attack to that statement. On the other hand, Xylophone/ Marimba are acoustic instruments. Which means its tone depends almost 100% on wood. And wood have different acoustic properties. But we are talking here about solid electric guitars. In this case, I think wood matters the most on a structure level and is not relevant enough in terms of altering the electric guitar's tone in general.

What do you think about it?

I'm not sure what to make of it really. If the argument is that tone wood absolutely affects acoustic instruments but has absolutely no effect on electrics, then i find that a very hard bridge to cross. One of the first things I observe in an electric is its acoustic timbre as I've found that to be a good measure of its quality. Now how we could accurately decide how much the wood/construction/pickup/speaker/time of day/consistency of "leavings" that morning etc. etc. are the core qualities that make the tone, i really dont know.
 
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I'm not sure what to make of it really. If the argument is that tone wood absolutely affects acoustic instruments but has absolutely no effect on electrics, then i find that a very hard bridge to cross.
I believe the argument is that the type of wood used on electric guitars bodies and necks does not affect the guitars tone in such a huge way that is relevant to take in consideration. I mean, if you have to grab a par of the best headphones or analyze the frequencies of wood vibration with a software, then the argument of relevance of tone wood on electrical guitar is kinda lost.
 
Huh? The point is the woods sound different eyes closed or not. Which wood is which is irrelevant. I could clearly hear differences with my ears. If you can't then maybe your speakers or headphones suck?

And yes I have thought about the
Which wood is which wouldn't be relevant in the tone wood argument?

If different types of wood sound different, it means they have tonal properties capable of affecting guitars tone in a very significant way. Doesn't it?

If so, wouldn't you want to be able to decide if you want a "bright wood" or a "warm wood" for your guitar?

If the tone wood is relevant enough and the differences are significant, wouldn't it be easy to identify which wood is which in a comparison like that on the video just by listening to it?
 
Which wood is which wouldn't be relevant in the tone wood argument?

If different types of wood sound different, it means they have tonal properties capable of affecting guitars tone in a very significant way. Doesn't it?

If so, wouldn't you want to be able to decide if you want a "bright wood" or a "warm wood" for your guitar?

If the tone wood is relevant enough and the differences are significant, wouldn't it be easy to identify which wood is which in a comparison like that on the video just by listening to it?

I have had more substantive conversations with potted plants.

Yes you can hear the difference. With good speakers and a functional hearing range the differences aren't even subtle. And yes in the video some were brighter and some were warmer. With each subsequent post it sure seems like you are arguing with yourself in contradictions and platitudes. So I'll leave you to it!

There is a pothos on my desk that wants to dialog.
 
I have had more substantive conversations with potted plants.
Ouch. Leave it to intellectual carelessness on the part of a gear manufacturer to start disagreements between otherwise thoughtful people. He would lead us to believe that acoustic (so called) tone woods are normatively superior to other materials in shaping the output from magnetic pickups on solid body electric guitars. Difference doesn't imply fundamentally better or worse. Where wood matters to the construction of electric solid bodies it's irresponsible to one-to-one equate that difference to the substantial difference quality and type makes in acoustic instruments. If one hears a difference, pick the materials and construction that matter to oneself! The manufacturer is better at mis-framing and fanning debate than ending it.

Haven't watched it yet, but there's this:
Dave, did you end up watching it, or did you just post? :)
 
Ouch. Leave it to intellectual carelessness on the part of a gear manufacturer to start disagreements between otherwise thoughtful people. He would lead us to believe that acoustic (so called) tone woods are normatively superior to other materials in shaping the output from magnetic pickups on solid body electric guitars. Difference doesn't imply fundamentally better or worse. Where wood matters to the construction of electric solid bodies it's irresponsible to one-to-one equate that difference to the substantial difference quality and type makes in acoustic instruments. If one hears a difference, pick the materials and construction that matter to oneself! The manufacturer is better at mis-framing and fanning debate than ending it.


Dave, did you end up watching it, or did you just post? :)
Nope :) My music time is limited, and I'd rather play.

When I am looking for an instrument to buy, I'll know when I get it in my hands, and ideas about wood are no substitute.

I do think he's earned a lot of people's ear, with a lot of righteously designed and built instruments, whether they're for me or not, and I was curious what he was thinking. But I got the CliffNotes version here, that's enough.
 
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I have had more substantive conversations with potted plants.

Yes you can hear the difference. With good speakers and a functional hearing range the differences aren't even subtle. And yes in the video some were brighter and some were warmer. With each subsequent post it sure seems like you are arguing with yourself in contradictions and platitudes. So I'll leave you to it!

There is a pothos on my desk that wants to dialog.
You get mad because I'm asking you questions you can't objectively answer? hahaha I'm sorry man. I promise I'll stop bothering you. From now on I'll respect your faith on tonewood for electric guitars. I'll stop asking you questions. Thanks for the conversation anyways.

Oh, and I like pothos, I'd love to have a great conversation with it. Is it on tonewood too?
 
I think the most important tonewoods of a guitar are the neck and fretboard because they influence how each person plays so directly. When it comes down to it, what isn't that great in one person's hands may be exactly what the next player has been looking for. There are so many good choices out there that's why alot of us have multiple guitars ;) ...rock on players
 
You get mad because I'm asking you questions you can't objectively answer?
I proved, or rather the guy in the Warmouth video, proved that type of wood affects tone. I am not mad never was.
Which wood is which wouldn't be relevant in the tone wood argument?
It is relevant that was my point all along. Do you always have this much trouble making sense? Again you have been blathering away that type of wood does not matter, until you contradict yourself and then subsequently re-contradict your contradiction with inane questions.
If different types of wood sound different, it means they have tonal properties capable of affecting guitars tone in a very significant way. Doesn't it?
Yes indeed just like they did in the video.
If so, wouldn't you want to be able to decide if you want a "bright wood" or a "warm wood" for your guitar?
I could after watching the video but apparently you can't.
If the tone wood is relevant enough and the differences are significant, wouldn't it be easy to identify which wood is which in a comparison like that on the video just by listening to it?

It was.

Here is an objective question for you:

Could you hear the difference between the woods in the video?

If your answer is yes then wood affects tone. QED

If your answer is no then either you aren't being truthful or your ears don't work too good. Also QED
 
Ouch. Leave it to intellectual carelessness on the part of a gear manufacturer to start disagreements between otherwise thoughtful people. He would lead us to believe that acoustic (so called) tone woods are normatively superior to other materials in shaping the output from magnetic pickups on solid body electric guitars.
I never said that, just that wood does have a pretty significant impact.

Anyone saying wood does not affect tone on any guitar (acoustic or electric) is spouting nonsense. The Warmouth video I posted above clearly shows that type of wood does impact tone. No one is saying that it will have a greater impact than pickups, but it certainly has an impact and the video I posted proves it.

As for PRS you don't have to look very hard on this forum to figure out that I think they are overpriced and way overrated compared to many great alternatives. I would never buy one. Every time I post that the flames roll in.
 
OK
I proved, or rather the guy in the Warmouth video, proved that type of wood affects tone. I am not mad never was.

It is relevant that was my point all along. Do you always have this much trouble making sense? Again you have been blathering away that type of wood does not matter, until you contradict yourself and then subsequently re-contradict your contradiction with inane questions.

Yes indeed just like they did in the video.

I could after watching the video but apparently you can't.


It was.

Here is an objective question for you:

Could you hear the difference between the woods in the video?

If your answer is yes then wood affects tone. QED

If your answer is no then either you aren't being truthful or your ears don't work too good. Also QED
Rex Rox, I'll try to explain what I think as clear as possible and in a nice way, ok?

First, I never said that wood doesn't affect the tone. But ok, maybe my questions for you weren't a good way to communicate my ideas.

Ok, first, what I think is the type of wood doesn't affect the tone in significant way, compared to pickups, the players play, speakers, bad fret work, to name a few. And by significant I mean: to justify paying a lot of attention and money to it as if it would mean a 50% in tone.

I think wood is responsible for making an electric guitar lasts a lifetime, is responsible to make them beautiful and, to me, those are a few of the most relevant functions of the wood.

What we've been told through history of electric guitars is that: "maple is bright, mahogany is warm, swamp ash is balanced an so on, as if it was a big part of a electrical guitar's tone."

Maybe it passed from one generation to another and nobody really put that into a real scientific test, because nobody cared about it. Even the manufacturers didn't care about. I think Leo Fender was looking for an abundant type of wood and low costs when he started to make guitars.
(The 5 monkeys experience maybe would be a good point to understand where that come from)

Now, about the Warmoth video, for example, I couldn't considerate as proof. Here a few reasons why:

1 - If you check the video description there's this:

"Not a scientific test, you say? Use a spectrum analyzer, you say? What do you think I'm trying to do here...put a space shuttle into orbit? :) This isn't a test for facts...it's a test for your perception. Because when it comes to evaluating sound, what's true for you may not be true for me, regardless of what a spectrum analyzer might say. Different people will perceive the same sound source slightly differently, either because their ears are different (older/younger, more/less sensitive, more/less trained), or because they listened at a different volume (the whole Fletcher-Munson thing). Some will hear a difference and others won't."

2 - The variables of the test are not controlled enough to be considered scientific. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's a practical test. But because it's not scientific, we can't know for sure if the tiny differences in frequencies from one guitar body to another, are coming from the wood properties (density, humidity, thermal and acoustic properties) or if those differences are coming from the players hands (notes pressing, hand strumming place, strumming strenght, picking, pickups height, etc.)

3 - The headphones and speakers we all are using are problably different. Which influences the perception. (Just to make it clear: the alder and swamp ash sounded pretty much the same in my perception. The mahogany sounded a lil different than the other two).

So, at the end of the day, I think the guitar pickups may capture a few frequencies from the general vibration of the guitar. But, not to the point of making a huge difference in tone, that would justify paying hundreds of dollars for it or justify thinking that a Squire can't sound the same as a Fender if the only difference between them are the types of woods.

That's it man. Thanks for this conversation.
 
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There is also this video that was pretty interesting on the topic…


Excellent

Edit : The good wood is a guitar you abide with. To feel fine on a guitar it's required to "be in love with it". 95% of the sound an electric guitar can produce is lnked to PU and their positionning/height. I actually never sold any guitar because it was bad sounding (I wouldn't have bought them in the first place), but because "the thrill was gone", the instrument finally wasn't "it" for me anymore.
 
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You can easily find a piece of Alder ,Basswood , Poplar ,Pine that are all practically the same density and if you build a guitar in any of these the sound will be very close. Yes different but the difference is often no more than two bodies in the same wood. Wood matters but if it sounds good and works mechanically for the application the species is irrelevant. Most traditional "Tone woods" were picked for other reasons if you go in to it. Alder was picked because it was very cheap ,available, easy to paint and finally sound.
 
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