Patches sound weak after upgrade to 7.01

[Ericbr1]

Pete (and others) I posted on a different thread but I had no gig this weekend, so 2 days ago I updated from 4.1 to 7.01. I have about 40 programs I've made, and don't use the supplied presets. I had to reset the amps on my presets (just like has been mentioned) . . At least 1/4 of my presets use Cameron models. Mine are NOT ruined and still have the meat in them. I mainly use the Atomica but also have some of the CCV programs I've made. They were all really easy for me to tweak back to where I like them, and some of the CCV's actually had improvements. I do NOT use 'cab modeling' though so I'm not sure if your issue lies there. Have you tried your presets without the cab modeling to see if it's the amps that were changed a lot , or just the cab you use? Just figured I'd post this as I also use lots of Cameron in my sound! I also use the Splawn Quick Rod and it didn't change much at all. Good luck finding out what happened, or recreating your sounds! Eric

 

[Ericbr1]

@Peter Lacis , 1 other thing.. I checked my Cameron programs this morning and whether using the Atomica, the CCV 2b, or 2c, , I have the SATURATION Switch on on all of them, and it's set to "AUTH". .. I LOVE LOVE my Cameron patches. With that off it's a very very different sound. Not sure if maybe that got changed on yours? Anyway, good luck. Eric

 

[Tator]

I'm in the wrong area, but the topic fits. On my MKII I use the ccvd model live with no cab block. The nuts are gone for me in 7.02. In order to get anywhere close to the sound from the previous firmware I need to up the input trim to 2500+. I usually run it at 850. That is a huge swing. Love my axe, but I suspect something may be amiss with these models. The change in gain seems too drastic

 

[Ericbr1]

I'm in the wrong area, but the topic fits. On my MKII I use the ccvd model live with no cab block. The nuts are gone for me in 7.02. In order to get anywhere close to the sound from the previous firmware I need to up the input trim to 2500+. I usually run it at 850. That is a huge swing. Love my axe, but I suspect something may be amiss with these models. The change in gain seems too drastic

Do you have the "Saturation Switch" ON ?

 

[Tator]

Do you have the "Saturation Switch" ON ?

Sat switch is on. Interesting note. The amp seems to default the sat knob on 10. I used to run it on 4. Needs 10 now to get the pissed sound it used to have. For what it's worth, I play heavy stuff but with as little gain as possible. I like punch and clarity. For whatever reason 7 looses the punch. I'm not giving up on it, but in its current state its making me rethink what I thought I knew to get my sound. I'm sure I'll figure out something, it's just the difference in gain between 6 and 7 was a shock to me. It seems lower by an order of magnitude. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Ericbr1]

Sat switch is on. Interesting note. The amp seems to default the sat knob on 10. I used to run it on 4. Needs 10 now to get the pissed sound it used to have. For what it's worth, I play heavy stuff but with as little gain as possible. I like punch and clarity. For whatever reason 7 looses the punch. I'm not giving up on it, but in its current state its making me rethink what I thought I knew to get my sound. I'm sure I'll figure out something, it's just the difference in gain between 6 and 7 was a shock to me. It seems lower by an order of magnitude. Thanks for the reply.

Do you have SAT set to "AUTH".. .Mine really sounds great like that, and yep my Sat is also pre-set on 10.. I didn't put it there! Sat-IDEAL sounds TOTALLY different to SAT-AUTH so try both . . With AUTH the Master or level will need to come up quite a bit more. ANyway, yes those changed a lot. I use ATOMICA for most of my gigs, and I had a really easy time dialing that back in. .If you guys noticed CCV 2c and 2d, etc changed a huge amount you should contact Fractal directly and ask specifically what they did, and maybe that 'll help. .I'm gonna stay tuned here out of curiosity ,but I really didn't have a problem dialing them in to my 'needs/wants' but surely understand if that's different for others! Eric

 

[Tator]

Do you have SAT set to "AUTH".. .Mine really sounds great like that, and yep my Sat is also pre-set on 10.. I didn't put it there! Sat-IDEAL sounds TOTALLY different to SAT-AUTH so try both . . With AUTH the Master or level will need to come up quite a bit more. ANyway, yes those changed a lot. I use ATOMICA for most of my gigs, and I had a really easy time dialing that back in. .If you guys noticed CCV 2c and 2d, etc changed a huge amount you should contact Fractal directly and ask specifically what they did, and maybe that 'll help. .I'm gonna stay tuned here out of curiosity ,but I really didn't have a problem dialing them in to my 'needs/wants' but surely understand if that's different for others! Eric

 

[Tator]

Eric, thanks again for the reply. I'll give your suggestions a go. Your information and time is greatly appreciated. If I can't gain any ground I may reach out to Fractal. It's rare, but it has happened before where an amp model made it into the wild with unintended values on certain parameters. I would be curious if the Cameron models (the D version for me) fell into that category this time. It's most likely me, but you never know. Maybe Cliff could spare a moment to confirm the model is as intended. Thanks again.

 

[dbun]

No - everything is sounding much better.
I only use the Vox based amps though.

I did have to reset the amp block - before that things were a bit 'off', but once resetting everything was much better.
I just had to redial in my EQ and gain knobs and I was back to the tone I had before, just better.

 

[Ericbr1]

Eric, thanks again for the reply. I'll give your suggestions a go. Your information and time is greatly appreciated. If I can't gain any ground I may reach out to Fractal. It's rare, but it has happened before where an amp model made it into the wild with unintended values on certain parameters. I would be curious if the Cameron models (the D version for me) fell into that category this time. It's most likely me, but you never know. Maybe Cliff could spare a moment to confirm the model is as intended. Thanks again.

Hey there, I did some more experimenting with the Camerons today and they're definitely very different than they were. When Saturation-Auth is selected, any time you load that amp, it defaults to Saturation Drive on 10.. That is WAY less ballsy and WAY lower volume than when you turn down that Sat-Drive parameter. . I have no idea why it would default to 10. Maybe it's a bug. . Meanwhile, I don't like the LO-Res parameter being so high, so I lower that. That's for my setup .. . Meanwhile, in the release notes it says the following: "Improved output transformer modeling. This results in tighter, less boomy and smoother bass when the virtual power amp is driven hard. Note that this change may be significant and initially alarming with certain amp models. While the new algorithms are much more accurate they may be disconcerting to those who are accustomed to the old algorithms. In these cases the user may want to decrease the Transformer Drive and/or Low Res parameters in the amp block at the expense of accuracy. It is recommended instead, however, to readjust other parameters in the preset (i.e. Drive, BMT, etc.) which will achieve more authentic results.

• Improved Amp block cathode follower modeling (again). This results in tighter bass and “chunkier” tones. As a result nearly all amp models that use cathode followers have been reworked with updated parameters. It is recommended that the model be reloaded by deselecting and reselecting the desired model which will load the pertinent default values. Models that have benefited the most from this include: "

Of course the Cameron CCV is listed as 1 of the models affected by the changes. Anyway, the only really odd thing to me is how Saturation-Drive defaults to 10 , and I could've sworn that always defaulted to 4 previously , but I could be wrong

Have you or Pete figured things out?

Eric

 

[Tator]

Hey Eric, I have found a work around for my live sound (no cab block)...

• Enable boost (never used boost on any amp before this. It adds the missing gain here).
• Set input trim: .85
• Set Input Drive: 2.8
• Enable Saturation - Authentic (level: 3.5)
• Set Speaker Drive: 0
• Set XFormer Drive: .05

I've uploaded the Mark II preset if anyone curious. Scene 1 is amp only (my main tone). Not sure it will work for anyone else though. I'm going into some old Carvin Brit serious speakers in a Southcoast Sound cab (4x12). I really need some good speakers. Again, thanks for the help.