Palm Muting Tone Shaping

State of Epicicity

State of Epicicity

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GuitarGuy316 said:
I am forever trying to get “that” sound of metalcore from the mid 2000s to 2010s. Can you share any tips or PM me? 😎
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I figured a dedicated thread would help way more; so many people will have better ideas than me! But I'll tell you the way I think about it to start the thread: Personally, I find it most useful to use a movable mic cab simulator, capture a static IR from that, then add a ton of Proximity and trim the length of the IR (usually to 512) to remove room reflections. For any amp where I want to find out real world response I then set Speaker Thump to my guess for the real world formula (Amp wattage / cab speaker wattage x 5), then I'll set Speaker Impedance by ear, usually to around 1.20. For some amps I'll increase the low cut of the Input EQ of the Amp Block by ear until palm mutes are tight. I try to get just enough gain to get the aggression I want, then just shape the frequency around that, first with just BMT to get the right character, adding Mids until there's just enough chunk, then using Presence and Depth as post eq type thing, to get the frequency response I like. One thing I find really important is to try to retain some warmth in the tone. I find it too damn easy to hype the high end to the point that the palm mutes are so defined they start to resemble a consumer boom box with a smiley faced eq. To me good tones have a somewhat muted pick attack, so I try to avoid that myself, but you should of course defer to your tastes and whatever inspires you.

To me the big initial factor is that IR. I definitely have a very weird frequency response from my guitar, so I've found that the movable mic plugins help me find the sweet spot that interacts with my pickups perfectly, then I can make them sound more present, if you will, with the Smoothing parameter. Then, most of what I'm doing on the amp is not trying to avoid harsh frequencies, but instead just dialing in for character; in other words, it all sounds pleasing, so it just becomes a matter of what I'm trying to say with my guitar at that moment.

This is my bullshit approach, but it works for me. @jamesmarshall has really good tips starting here in this thread, but I've barely played guitar in a month because I'm moving, so I have not been able to try them. They may also work great for anyone who struggles with static IRs as I do.

I'm sure you'll get lots of great advice from others, and of course no method is empirically right here, so I hope you find something that works well for you. Best of luck!
 
2000s Metalcore is the sound of a TS9 into a 5150 or Dual Recto through a Mesa Oversized 4x12 with V30s

At least that's like 90% what everybody was playing at the time IIRC. Those were my touring/performing years. Occasionally you'd get Marshall/Orange/Engl, but nowhere near as many as the 5150 or Recto
 
rossipedia said:
2000s Metalcore is the sound of a TS9 into a 5150 or Dual Recto through a Mesa Oversized 4x12 with V30s

At least that's like 90% what everybody was playing at the time IIRC. Those were my touring/performing years. Occasionally you'd get Marshall/Orange/Engl, but nowhere near as many as the 5150 or Recto
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Absolutely, I understand that basic setup. It’s really more of the question where to start EQing to get a satisfying tight and chewy sound but not too dry. That’s the one part of the digital world and trying to replicate that sound without the preset sounding too dry and crisp but have enough saturation and compression.
 
GuitarGuy316 said:
Absolutely, I understand that basic setup. It’s really more of the question where to start EQing to get a satisfying tight and chewy sound but not too dry. That’s the one part of the digital world and trying to replicate that sound without the preset sounding too dry and crisp but have enough saturation and compression.
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The crisp part to me is the hard part. As I play I want that definition, but very quickly ear fatigue can set in. At least with my guitar I find that in the BMT I really like to boost bass and mids on a modern gainy amp but slightly reduce treble, to lessen the pick attack in a way that keeps it refined. Then the presence can set the overall high end in a way that isn’t obnoxious or overly hyped. This is key to me, no matter how much gain you use, is not to over hype the pick attack.
 
Interesting thread. I'd never think to tailor a sound for this specifically. Always figured it was right hand technique and a guitar with lighter strings.
 
A few things to add to the thread.

Using a PEQ BEFORE the amp can help even things out before you use the BMT and presence on the amp. I find doing it this way helps to not chop the heck out of your tone when you add a PEQ after the amp and or cab. I have seen Cooper Carter do the 100hz in the input eq of the amp block and that is good, but you only get one frequency you can tweak there. I like to pull 1-3 DB from 180-300 before the amp, so you have headroom for those chuggy palm mutes in that range and not have them "boomy" or "thumping", but still tight and solid. Using an Amp that has the depth control helps to add some of that back when at 250hz.

Same goes for getting a great smooth high end. Take out about 2-3 DB of a Q of 1 at 3100hz, again, before the amp. The amp will add back what you need and add the nice harmonic content you want in a higher gain tone.
Try it... I know it sounds counter intuitive, but think of it like making room/headroom for the amp to do it's thing. You can usually go a little more heavy handed on lows and highs at the amp when you cut some before the amp, and you get a little more harmonic content added by the amp.

Also the Multiband comp is a lifesaver for controlling palm mutes after the amp or cab. Watch Leon Todd's you tube on it to get more insight. I do mine a whole different way. I do both the low band and the mid band to control my palm mutes. I set the mid at 80 and the high at 700. This way I can catch the 400-600 whamp sound along with the 140-300 thumps. The low band just catches some of the thumping below where you usually cut, but somehow I still get some "stuff" down there even with a low cut at 90hz.
 
mattgreenrocks said:
Do actives pickups impart a perceptible difference in attack vs passives? Or is it more about the particularities of EMG’s tone, eg the distribution of BMT and how hot they are?
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The EMG 81 is probably the most popular pickup in that genre. It's got a very tight low end, and lots of midrange presence. It's also rather compressed, so you get a very smooth and predictable distortion/overdrive character with it.

It's definitely got a very recognizable feel to it.
 
Use a TS808, turn the drive to zero or 1, put the volume between 7-10, bump the mids around 1200 and call it a day. That'll get you that 2000s metalcore sound with a little more clarity. This is assuming you're using a 5150 or recto like mentioned above but you can do it with Friedmans or any other high gain amp. Just find the sweet spot with the gain on the amp and make sure you're dialing it in with a mix. You can get really boxy really quick.
 
81/85 etc EMGs sound and feel dead to me. I avoid them at all costs. They were a better answer for metal when all we had was tube amps and pedal boosts. Today, you can get that effect without having a dead feeling pickup (that sounds like ass for cleans IMHO) thanks to all the input, gain, gate and compression options we have in our digital pre-amps.

The only actives I've ever been able to tolerate are the new Fishman ones and even then I go for the more classic leaning voices over the modern.
 
Heh, different strokes. I absolutely love the EMG active clean sound, but that's probably because Metallica was the band that got me into guitar (I'm 100% a basic af 90s kid)
 
rossipedia said:
Heh, different strokes. I absolutely love the EMG active clean sound, but that's probably because Metallica was the band that got me into guitar (I'm 100% a basic af 90s kid)
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60 (as metallica used) sounds better for cleans than the 85. SA singles, even better cleans.
 
rossipedia said:
Heh, different strokes. I absolutely love the EMG active clean sound, but that's probably because Metallica was the band that got me into guitar (I'm 100% a basic af 90s kid)
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I'm right there with you on loving golden era Metallica! Master of Puppets (the album) is the reason I picked up a guitar in 1991.
Yes, they are a poster child band for EMG cleans for sure, as many less amazing thrash bands also are.

I'm good with that sound for them, but being not them, I found it didn't transfer to me with any utility... and generally sounds like ass in other thrash bands that does it, see Slayer and their LOL clean part tone. If it works for you, then it works!
 
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