output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts...

[pisquano]

I explain myself
I have been playing with my band in different rehearsal rooms everytime going to the return of effect loops

now I am always happy with the sound, no matter how crappy amp I am given, but I noticed that, volume wise
I often have to crank the output volume almost to full

is this normal? I play with humbuckers, and all my patches are well set up.
the input knob is around 2 o clock and the output is like 3 o clock.

I even played with a Hiwatt head into a 4x12, and it was obviously really loud, but I was expecting to be able to roll down the output a bit, whereas I had the master volume in the head almost to 8.
bear in mind all these tests were done in small rehearsal rooms, so I am worried when I will have to play small/medium gigs, as I plan to do that with a 30W tube amp or a QSC K12....

am I missing something?

 

[ESP MM-270]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

Hay,

The outputs on the Axe are hot! Hotter than the tube pre's I've tried/had. I have a GX3 SS power and my mate has a MB 2:90 and I couldn't hear myself over him when he cranked (both using one channel) also noticed my sound wasn't so hot either. I dunno if this is right but I adjusted the various levels in my chain ie Amp, PEQ etc to just below where the 'clipping' led lights up on the front of the axe and I then noticed two things......

1. Sounded so much better

2. Blew my mates 2:90 away completely on about 2/3rds power gain

 

[fearlessflier]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

I dunno if this is right but I adjusted the various levels in my chain ie Amp, PEQ etc to just below where the 'clipping' led lights up on the front of the axe and I then noticed two things......

1. Sounded so much better

2. Blew my mates 2:90 away completely on about 2/3rds power gain

How exactly do you adjust like this for optimum levels? Bypass everything else in the signal chain, or is the clipping light meaningful if you have everything else in the signal chain still active?

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

The Axe-Fx is a preamp. As such, it does not produce power to drive a speaker, it produces a line level signal that is intended to drive a power amplifier or mixing console. It has more than enough output capability to drive any power amp well beyond its clip point. If you're having difficulty getting enough output to drive a power amp to its full output, it is not because of any limitation in the Axe-Fx.

 

[yek]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

Some amps can't cope that well with an external preamp entering through their effects loop Return.
For example, I couldn't get a normal output level with my Bogner Ecstasy.
Make sure to turn up the loop's level as well as the amp's master volume.

Also, some amps need a dummy in the loop's Send to enable the loop's Return.

So it's really a problem with the head or its loop, not the Axe-Fx or its output signal.

 

[Sixstring]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

I explain myself
I have been playing with my band in different rehearsal rooms everytime going to the return of effect loops

now I am always happy with the sound, no matter how crappy amp I am given, but I noticed that, volume wise
I often have to crank the output volume almost to full

is this normal? I play with humbuckers, and all my patches are well set up.
the input knob is around 2 o clock and the output is like 3 o clock.

I even played with a Hiwatt head into a 4x12, and it was obviously really loud, but I was expecting to be able to roll down the output a bit, whereas I had the master volume in the head almost to 8.
bear in mind all these tests were done in small rehearsal rooms, so I am worried when I will have to play small/medium gigs, as I plan to do that with a 30W tube amp or a QSC K12....

am I missing something?

I adjust most everything in my signal chain to unity with the exception of delay and reverb or a Drive or E/Q block when using it as a boost. I usually add a small amount level in those blocks, 1-2 db to balance them out as they tend to drop your volume for some reason when you turn them on.

For simple signal chain layouts [DRV]-[AMP]-[CAB]-[DLY]-[REV] I control over all level in any given preset with level adjustment in the amp block. It sounds like you need to check the level balance in your signal chain. I would start by backing off the output to around noon and go into each preset, check and adjust the level's if needed in each block finishing with the amp block to set your final volume for that preset.

Just an FYI one of my heavier presets (Energyball) I have the level in the amp block set at-25db and with the OP set at noon and my SLA-2 set at 100% volume it can get silly loud. with your case if this setting wasn't enough simply increase the level in the amp block.

 

[pisquano]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

Some amps can't cope that well with an external preamp entering through their effects loop Return.
For example, I couldn't get a normal output level with my Bogner Ecstasy.
.

yes I believe this is very true....

so using a FRFR should give me back loads of output volume

 

[pisquano]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

.

For simple signal chain layouts [DRV]-[AMP]-[CAB]-[DLY]-[REV] I control over all level in any given preset with level adjustment in the amp block. It sounds like you need to check the level balance in your signal chain. I would start by backing off the output to around noon and go into each preset, check and adjust the level's if needed in each block finishing with the amp block to set your final volume for that preset.

.

I actually already do that....I use some 40 presets, and in each of them I always use the amp block level to determine the final preset volume.

 

[ESP MM-270]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

How exactly do you adjust like this for optimum levels? Bypass everything else in the signal chain, or is the clipping light meaningful if you have everything else in the signal chain still active?

Hard to explain as I'm a frantic knob twiddler (no pun intended) I just raise and lower the output levels of the AMP, PEQ, Cab blocks vs the main output (one on the end of the chain of effects not the dial on the front) level until I get a full and pleasing sound whilst keeping an eye on the 'Clipping' light on the front of the Axe.

 

[Tricki]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

Some amps can't cope that well with an external preamp entering through their effects loop Return.
For example, I couldn't get a normal output level with my Bogner Ecstasy.
.

yes I believe this is very true....

so using a FRFR should give me back loads of output volume

I.M.O. you get the best loudness / power ratio with tube power amp and guitar speaker box. Tube power amp because you can drive it with hotter input signal without nasty results. With SS-Power amps you need some more headroom. Another point is the input sensitivity of different power amps. Amps with higher sensitivity seem to be louder because they amplify the input more than amps with lower sensitivity.
In my experience FRFR-Boxes are less efficient than guitar speaker boxes. So driven by the same power amp they are quieter than guitar speaker boxes.

B.T.W. there are many places in the effect chain which influence the patch volume. You can easily test if your patch volume is properly set when you hit the Bypass-Button. There should not be a big volume difference between patch and bypass level.

 

[pisquano]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

[quote="TrickiB.T.W. there are many places in the effect chain which influence the patch volume. You can easily test if your patch volume is properly set when you hit the Bypass-Button. There should not be a big volume difference between patch and bypass level.[/quote]

is this what some people mean when they say they adjust everything to "unity"?

 

[Tricki]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

[quote="TrickiB.T.W. there are many places in the effect chain which influence the patch volume. You can easily test if your patch volume is properly set when you hit the Bypass-Button. There should not be a big volume difference between patch and bypass level.

is this what some people mean when they say they adjust everything to "unity"?

I think so. The patch should not strongly amplify or damp the volume of the input signal.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

Srsly?

 

[yek]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

There should not be a big volume difference between patch and bypass level.

The patch should not strongly amplify or damp the volume of the input signal.

Why???

 

[pisquano]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

Yek, what do people mean by saying they set the volume at unity level?

 

[yek]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

Yek, what do people mean by saying they set the volume at unity level?

Unity level or gain means that the overall volume level stays the same, whether a device is in the chain or outside the chain.

Example:
suppose you put an effects processor like the G-Major in your amp's series effects loop.
You'll want to set its main input and output levels at a point where they match the volume level of the amp without the G-Major in the loop. That's unity gain.
Another one: When I enable a certain effect I want the overall volume to stay the same. So I adjust the Mix and Level settings to preserve unity gain.

Now, the Axe-Fx of course is a totally different all-in-one digital device.
You can input a soft signal and steer it out LOUD, of vice versa. as long as you take care of things like not clipping, using available headroom and signal-to-noise ratio, it doesn't really matter how you set the levels.
You can turn down the amp's level -30dB and pump it up again in the Cab block or not, and change it again in the preset Mixer. It doesn't really matter because it's all digital after the A/D converter at the input.

That's why it makes no sense IMHO to state that there should be no big difference between the bypassed level and the patch level. Or that the input signal shouldn't be damped etc. It's important to optimize the input signal (knob at the front) but after that it's free play.

There may be other reasons to keep the patch and bypassed levels close though, for example for reference when matching levels between multiple presets, but that's something different.

 

[Smilzo]

Re: output volume: is the AXE powerful enough? some doubts..

There may be other reasons to keep the patch and bypassed levels close though, for example for reference when matching levels between multiple presets, but that's something different.

Yes. Plus...
Unit level should not (shall not :lol: ) clip digitally, whilst stageing two block (ie, 2 amp block) could clip if they boost the signal.
Unit level allow faster switching between configuration... immagine to bypass the amp emulation to run into real amp.