Output 4 output level

Mutha Goose

Mutha Goose

Inspired
Somewhere along the way of the recent firmware updates, my output 4 output level changed and I can't find what setting changed. It is now -20dBr relative to outputs 1 and 2 (both of which are set at +4dBu) whereas before they were equal. I do not have a pad on output 4. I figure I'm missing something or did something stupid. Any ideas?

P.S. This is all of my preset, including the factory presets so it must be in the global setup.
 
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Mutha Goose said:
Somewhere along the way of the recent firmware updates, my output 4 output level changed and I can't find what setting changed. It is now -20dBr relative to outputs 1 and 2 (both of which are set at +4dBu) whereas before they were equal. I do not have a pad on output 4. I figure I'm missing something or did something stupid. Any ideas?

P.S. This is all of my preset, including the factory presets so it must be in the global setup.
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Outputs 3 and 4 have always been less output level than 1 and 2. This is by design.

Perhaps you moved the front panel knob?

DA6AE2D4-BDB7-4F75-AEB2-A6907C6C56F5.jpeg
 
Reading this, I'm a bit confused on which output is the correct output to use when sending a direct signal to FOH via a splitter. In my setup, I'll be going out of the Axe into 2 other pieces of hardware: 1) A matrix power amp that feeds cabinets when/if needed by venue. 2) Art Splitter for the FOH to get a direct signal.

Currently, I have Output 1 going to the power amp as it has the +4db enabled and allows it to get extremely loud, and I have Output 3 going to the Art Splitter.

Is this an incorrect setup? Should I be sending Output 1 or 2 to FOH? It's something I could easily get done by using the right and left output channels for different things. But it just seemed easier to send Ouptut 3 to FOH...but I'd rather sacrifice ease of use and send them a great signal if that means moving to Output 2.
 
I'd use Output 2's XLR outs to send a balanced line level signal to FOH. You'll get less noise over long cable runs that way too.
 
mr_fender said:
I'd use Output 2's XLR outs to send a balanced line level signal to FOH. You'll get less noise over long cable runs that way too.
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If I send via Output 2 and Output 2 is +4 DB, do I need to alter my presets volume going out? It can be a very hot signal that a lot of FOH engineers might not be prepared for. And would I set Output 2's knob fully clockwise?

The splitter this goes to also feeds an x32 rack system I use for my in ears, so I can see what level is going into that and bring the preset level down so that I'm not sending a clipped signal. Just not sure what's best practice for this situation.
 
RamboMadCow said:
If I send via Output 2 and Output 2 is +4 DB, do I need to alter my presets volume going out? It can be a very hot signal that a lot of FOH engineers might not be prepared for. And would I set Output 2's knob fully clockwise?

The splitter this goes to also feeds an x32 rack system I use for my in ears, so I can see what level is going into that and bring the preset level down so that I'm not sending a clipped signal. Just not sure what's best practice for this situation.
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can you set Out 2 to -10dB in settings instead of +4?

i wouldn't set any control to maximum, i'd set it to whatever they want. in that case, you can leave it set to +4 and slowly bring up the Out 2 knob until it's the level they want.

if you have a Mono signal to FOH, you don't even need the splitter. just send Left to FOH and Right to your x32. set Copy L > R for Out 2 in settings so they're they exact same signal.
 
chris said:
can you set Out 2 to -10dB in settings instead of +4?

i wouldn't set any control to maximum, i'd set it to whatever they want. in that case, you can leave it set to +4 and slowly bring up the Out 2 knob until it's the level they want.

if you have a Mono signal to FOH, you don't even need the splitter. just send Left to FOH and Right to your x32. set Copy L > R for Out 2 in settings so they're they exact same signal.
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If I go this route, I run the problem of my volume going into my mixer changing depending on where the FOH engineer wants me to set Output 2's volume. The goal is to send a consistent signal to the mixer that never changes so that we can dial in our IEMs in my studio and they never change in gigs.

Having the same output control both FOH and IEMs is going to be a nightmare for consistent mixes.
 
When I send a signal to the FOH from out 1 I'm somewhere around 9 or 10 o clock with the output knob. That's already loud, I would not turn it all the way up.
 
RamboMadCow said:
If I go this route, I run the problem of my volume going into my mixer changing depending on where the FOH engineer wants me to set Output 2's volume. The goal is to send a consistent signal to the mixer that never changes so that we can dial in our IEMs in my studio and they never change in gigs.

Having the same output control both FOH and IEMs is going to be a nightmare for consistent mixes.
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the issue is different venues won't be consistent, so you want to have control over that level send, i'd say always. if i was running sound, i'd never let anyone send me something turned all the way up unless i know what's going on (and most sound guys don't take that time). does your splitter also have a level control?

why not send Out 3 to your IEM and Out 2 to FOH or something similar? then you'd have 3 level controls for all 3 sends.
 
It's really no different than using Output 3. You just don't need to turn the OUT 2 knob up as far to hit the same output level. Outputs 1 and 2 are line level and hotter than the unity gain outputs 3 and 4.
 
I have an identical setup to you OP

In my situation I have Output 1 to FOH
The copy output 1 to output 2 option enabled
Output 2 to IEM rack independently
Output 3 to my power amp

Means the FOH & IEM feeds are identical signal wise but have independent volume controls (100% for my IEMs so they never change & output 1 whatever FOH wants)

Hope this helps!
 
The global eqs also have volume sliders. It's the right parameter in the line of band 3 in the peq.
You can globally change the volume of an output there.
 
chris said:
the issue is different venues won't be consistent, so you want to have control over that level send, i'd say always. if i was running sound, i'd never let anyone send me something turned all the way up unless i know what's going on (and most sound guys don't take that time). does your splitter also have a level control?

why not send Out 3 to your IEM and Out 2 to FOH or something similar? then you'd have 3 level controls for all 3 sends.
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When you're running properly sealing IEMs, your mix does stay the same. You're getting direct signals from the Axe for both guitars, bass, and 1 mic. The only thing that might change are the drum overheads but I've never experienced a significant sound change in 8 gigs that warrant fine control over that. My band's mix was setup with the IEMs that the sound was the same whether it was in the studio, a smaller venue packed with people, or a huge venue with 15 people.

mr_fender said:
It's really no different than using Output 3. You just don't need to turn the OUT 2 knob up as far to hit the same output level. Outputs 1 and 2 are line level and hotter than the unity gain outputs 3 and 4.
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So it sounds like I need to prioritize using Output 1 or 2 for the FOH, and then keep Output 3/4 for IEMs/mixer. It's a lot easier to turn the volume up on Output 3 (internally, not the knob which would be maxed).

I think in this situation then, so that I can get maximal output power to my amp and to FOH, Output 1/2 would be the amp, the other for FOH, and then 3/4 for the mixer.

Kinda means I don't need the splitter for that...just a patch bay 🤦‍♂️
 
Gosh, thinking about this some more, this introduces a few problems I'll have to figure out. In this case, if we're not sending a set signal to FOH from output 3 or 4, but we send a line level signal via output 1 or 2, this means my lead guitarist and bass player have to have control over their output 1 and 2 to the FOH. Currently, those are set to their own amp outputs since it's so much hotter than 3 or 4.

I might have to route their signals into my Axe unit that I then rout to the two power amps, instead of each Axe getting its own power amp. Then use Output 1 or 2 on my axe to control all 3 volumes going to the amps. I might have to send to my axe from their output 3 and 4 just so that we could have control of the on stage sound balance between the 3 of us.

Gonna have to put on my engineering cap to figure this out I think.
 
RamboMadCow said:
Gosh, thinking about this some more, this introduces a few problems I'll have to figure out. In this case, if we're not sending a set signal to FOH from output 3 or 4, but we send a line level signal via output 1 or 2, this means my lead guitarist and bass player have to have control over their output 1 and 2 to the FOH. Currently, those are set to their own amp outputs since it's so much hotter than 3 or 4.

I might have to route their signals into my Axe unit that I then rout to the two power amps, instead of each Axe getting its own power amp. Then use Output 1 or 2 on my axe to control all 3 volumes going to the amps. I might have to send to my axe from their output 3 and 4 just so that we could have control of the on stage sound balance between the 3 of us.

Gonna have to put on my engineering cap to figure this out I think.
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Are you running multiple instruments through the Axe?

With just a single guitar it’s very simple.
Out 1 FOH
Out 2 IEM (copy out 1)
Out 3 Amp (arrange grid so out 3 doesn’t get cab block)
 
chris said:
Are you running multiple instruments through the Axe?

With just a single guitar it’s very simple.
Out 1 FOH
Out 2 IEM (copy out 1)
Out 3 Amp (arrange grid so out 3 doesn’t get cab block)
Click to expand...

I am indeed. My Axe unit sends my guitar and my microphone (I have on demand delay/reverb for my mic through this axe). My second Axe runs my lead guitar and bass player. So the delima is getting independent, line level signals to FOH and the amps, which can be adjusted as needed for the venue, while getting a good signal of all 4 to the mixer that doesn't ever change for IEMs.

I had originally thought sending to the FOH via 3 and 4, and just setting the output volume to -10 for all of the instruments would be good for the FOH, but that does remove a certain level of discreet control over the signal they'd like to receive.
 
This makes me think I might need to seriously consider getting volume controls on the performance page, and just teach my guys how to get to that page and use it. That would allow me to better divide up where and how the signal is manipulated as I could send both lead and bass to Output 1 using independent L and R, set a general Output 1 volume, and then have them do more fine adjustments with the performance page volume controls.
 
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