Output 1 Level: -10 dBV or 4 dBu at big church

T

tveiro

Member
Hi,

I was reading the Fractal Owner's Manual on page 5 about output levels.
It's saying to use -10 dBV for consumer-grade level equipment and 4 dBu for pro-grade level.
When my Axe-FX3 is connected to my MacBook via USB, it's showing an output level of -10 dBV.
What kind of equipment is considered consumer-grade and pro-grade?
I'm about to use my Axe-Fx3 at a big church. I heard that the mixer that they use is $100K+. Is this $100K+ mixer considered pro-grade equipment?
Should I be using 4 dBu at the church or -10 dBV?
Does Axe-FX3 change its output level automatically depending on the equipment?
What difference would it make? Better sound?

Thanks!
 
Read section 4 in the manual and look at the various configurations.

The FX3 doesn’t change configuration depending on the equipment. How would it know what it’s connected to via an audio cable?

Better sound because it lowers the noise floor.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
Read section 4 in the manual and look at the various configurations.

The FX3 doesn’t change configuration depending on the equipment. How would it know what it’s connected to via an audio cable?

Better sound because it lowers the noise floor.
Click to expand...
I read that part of the manual and it does not answer my question.
 
I plug my FM3 into a Steinberg UR22 MK2 and out to monitors. Even though I don't consider the unit "pro grade", I still use the +4dBU out to it's inputs. Steinberg has a "Hi-Z" switch if using the -10 dBV stuff into it. Such as a guitar connected to a pedal board and into the UR22.

Not sure if this helps. Just my understanding of the concept. I'
m sure someone will mention if I have something out of whack. ;)
 
I used to set it to -10dBV to ensure that I didn't send too hot of a signal to FOH regardless of where I was playing. Since I'm now playing consistently in a couple of different places and know the systems, I now have it set it to +4dBu so I don't need to change it when I'm home.

Regardless of the setting, don't send full volume right away. My rule of thumb is to set Out 1 to 50%, then use my volume pedal to slowly increase the level to ensure that my gear doesn't clip anything on their end.
 
tveiro said:
Hi,

I was reading the Fractal Owner's Manual on page 5 about output levels.
It's saying to use -10 dBV for consumer-grade level equipment and 4 dBu for pro-grade level.
When my Axe-FX3 is connected to my MacBook via USB, it's showing an output level of -10 dBV.
What kind of equipment is considered consumer-grade and pro-grade?
I'm about to use my Axe-Fx3 at a big church. I heard that the mixer that they use is $100K+. Is this $100K+ mixer considered pro-grade equipment?
Should I be using 4 dBu at the church or -10 dBV?
Does Axe-FX3 change its output level automatically depending on the equipment?
What difference would it make? Better sound?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
+4 vs -10 basically makes the axe louder, reallllly simple explanation and basically what it's doing.

if you use -10 and it sounds good, you're done. if you need more level from it, use +4.

chances are the mixer can handle +4.
 
tveiro said:
Is this $100K+ mixer considered pro-grade equipment?
Should I be using 4 dBu at the church or -10 dBV?
Does Axe-FX3 change its output level automatically depending on the equipment?
What difference would it make? Better sound?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
1. Yes
2. +4 dBu
3. No
4. Makes it a littler louder and a bit better sound
 
I’m not aware of any sound board that can’t handle +4dB. I think it is some consumer/home devices that need -10.

Don’t worry about sending too strong of a signal. I also wouldn’t be worried about sending too weak of a signal because they can add all the gain it needs. All things equal, a stronger signal will sound a little better than a weaker one, but it is a subtle difference. Set your output at +4 and output knob at 100%.

The one thing the sound person can’t fix is if you clip the signal inside the axe fx. Make sure the axe output lights don’t hit red on your loudest settings.
 
giantslayer said:
Don’t worry about sending too strong of a signal. I also wouldn’t be worried about sending too weak of a signal because they can add all the gain it needs. All things equal, a stronger signal will sound a little better than a weaker one, but it is a subtle difference. Set your output at +4 and output knob at 100%.
Click to expand...
I’ve always heard to send as strong a signal as the other side can cleanly handle to keep the noise floor low.
 
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In an ideal world, sending the strongest signal you can is great and the best option. Unfortunately, I had an experience where the sound "engineer" had the guitar channel set up expecting a mic input, even after telling him I was sending the board line level....let's just say it didn't go well.

Fortunately I was using a volume pedal and caught it before it got too far out of hand but it was still not good. This is why I caution players and offer the suggestion of how they can safely get a line check with their FAS device.
 
Mic or line level will not make an audible difference to FOH after gain is added to a pre on a modern console / stage box, even on a cheap X32, let alone a $100k DiGiCo console. At that level you can even go digital AES in with zero conversions if you want, but again you won’t hear a difference.

Regardless, modern pres provide super clean gain and the noise floor of digital modelers is so low that it really does not matter. It’s not like the old days when you had to get the loudest signal possible without clipping because noise floors were so high.

Anyway, I just keep all my personal units and the units of any artists I’m working with at -4dB with the volume all the way up regardless of the gear or engineers because engineers are used to seeing mic level, it works everywhere with no padding required, and as a result I don’t have to ever change settings regardless of where I’m playing or teching.

Personally I love fractal’s mic pre section, because I can get the character of a mic pre to really come through even when playing live through a super clean mic pre on a digital console. I just turn down the saturation and crank the gain until it’s just below the red. It’s hard to explain with words but it sits in a mix much better, like it gets the point across with less volume, and it smoothes out the high end.
 
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The other answer is to talk to the sound tech. If you are plugging into a channel used by other guitarists on day you aren’t playing, the tech might want a signal that is closer to even for all guitarists. Say the other guitarists run amps, the mics in front of the amp would be more at the Axe’s -10db, but other modelers or Axe’s could be set at +4db. So depending on that it could impact what the tech wants, so maybe try reaching out to them, or be ready to change it when plugging in so that you can help make both your’s and the sound tech’s jobs easier. Just my thoughts as a church guitarist, church worship and music director, and sound guy!
 
JoKeR III said:
In an ideal world, sending the strongest signal you can is great and the best option. Unfortunately, I had an experience where the sound "engineer" had the guitar channel set up expecting a mic input, even after telling him I was sending the board line level....let's just say it didn't go well.
Click to expand...
Its astounding how many people running around with mixing boards don't understand the difference between a mic and a line level signal.
 
strabes said:
Regardless, modern pres provide super clean gain and the noise floor of digital modelers is so low that it really does not matter. It’s not like the old days when you had to get the loudest signal possible without clipping because noise floors were so high.
Click to expand...
I don't think we're worried about noise added inside the modeler or the console, it's what could be induced by bad wiring, EMI, or bad components that might unexpectedly be encountered by the audio mid-flight once it's past the DAC.

We are probably safe to assume that everything is in perfect condition and of the best quality in a high-end studio or sound company, but an old mobile truck or Bob's Country Bunker's FOH might not have the same maintenance TLC or budget. We've all got horror stories of rooms with power that'd fail an electrical-code check, lousy cabling, XLR cables missing the set screws so the plugs fall out, or stray wires sticking out of the cable or housing. Those are the situations where pushing a hot signal down the wire can drown out the noise that creeps in. Those places where the "old days" still exist are what I was talking about.
 
I've always ran +4 with my output knob at 50%. Always have had a good clean signal. When working with a new FOH engineer, when it comes time to sound check, I strike a chord and slowly roll my volume knob up to make sure they don't have the input settings incorrect resulting in burst eardrums lol.
 
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