Opinions Wanted: Do You Believe Finger Speed Is A Natural Talent?

Samx_33 said:
I think that if you practice speed exercises every day and gradually increase the bpm and learn songs that involve playing fast over time if you stay consistent you will improve (the difficult thing is to have that discipline).
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I'm not practicing "speed exercises" specifically, but I am using riffs from a lot of Petrucci's songs to improve my technique, and I'm so happy that it's really starting to pay off. There's things I'm doing now that I thought were beyond my abilities, and it is very gratifying. New licks I go to learn now come much easier also. I'm also convinced this would not have happened if I had not bought an Axe Fx III. There's something SO inspiring about playing to an awesome tone, with killer effects!
 
Samx_33 said:
There may be people who have a certain genetic advantage that allows them to play faster,

but I think it's the least significant thing.

In the end, the common factor of all guitarists who play fast was the discipline of practicing and playing speed technique for a huge number of hours for example 8 or hours every day.

Paul Gilbert, Jason Becker, Yngwie, John Petrucci etc...


I think that if you practice speed exercises every day and gradually increase the bpm and learn songs that involve playing fast

over time if you stay consistent you will improve (the difficult thing is to have that discipline).
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Or you end up hurting yourself and have to go see an orthopedic surgeon. ;)

I think it is just bad advice to suggest doing repetitive exercises for that length of time is in any way healthy.
 
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Again, comparing tomatoes to potatoes here. Imagine telling someone they can be
Mr. Olympia if they just lift weights for 8 hours a day. Or someone can become Whitney
Houston if they just sing for 8 hours a day. Or you can become as rich as Warren Buffet
if you just invest 8 hours a day.

It's literally encouraging people to use a force of will to push through pain and resistance
so that they can get better, and then saying it is "discipline," when the greater likelihood
is that they end up injured and hurt, and then have to stop doing something completely.

There are SO many other factors at play than just doing something repetitiously. Seems like
this thread should have made that all too clear by now. ;)
 
la noise said:
Or you end up hurting yourself and have to go see an orthopedic surgeon. ;)
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You know, it's funny (maybe not the right word, but anyway...) that ever since you cautioned me to dial it back when I was having wrist pain, I've been much more careful to listen to my body, and work on something else if I get even a slight amount of discomfort. I'll now give my wrist a break after doing 3rd fret-7th fret riffs, whereas before, I'd have just ignored it.
 
la noise said:
Again, comparing tomatoes to potatoes here. Imagine telling someone they can be
Mr. Olympia if they just lift weights for 8 hours a day. Or someone can become Whitney
Houston if they just sing for 8 hours a day. Or you can become as rich as Warren Buffet
if you just invest 8 hours a day.

It's literally encouraging people to use a force of will to push through pain and resistance
so that they can get better, and then saying it is "discipline," when the greater likelihood
is that they end up injured and hurt, and then have to stop doing something completely.

There are SO many other factors at play than just doing something repetitiously. Seems like
this thread should have made that all too clear by now. ;)
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Absolutely, good points. But it's hard to know, without putting in the effort, if you can attain a certain level that you want to get to. It can be a sort of conundrum. "You gotta put in lots of practice to get as good as those guys." "Yeah, but maybe in your case, you just suck, and you should stop wasting your time."
It's like for me personally, there were many days in the last couple years where I was thinking, "Is this really worth it? I'm seeing gains, but they're taking a lot of effort, and I don't really know if overall I'm wasting my time." (kind of a big reason why I started this thread in the first place.)

I'd say everyone has a personal "best" they can be, and it takes different amounts of effort for each of us to arrive at that place. And we each have to make our own choices as to how much effort we want to invest, and when it's time to stop doing so, due to diminishing returns. The trick as I see it, is to not get discouraged before it happens, but also to not continue fighting a losing battle. I suppose this is where having a private teacher evaluating your progress can provide you with insight that you can't necessarily see, yourself.
 
la noise said:
Or you end up hurting yourself and have to go see an orthopedic surgeon. ;)

I think it is just bad advice to suggest doing repetitive exercises for that length of time is in any way healthy.
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This reminds of another thing we all need to be doing, especially as we age: Warm up. Similar to not going out on that field to play a pickup football game before you stretch, unless you wanna pull a hamstring (been there, done that.)
Stretch those fingers, get the blood flow going, all that stuff.
 
True. :) Absolutes are not absolutes at all. They are just clumsily thrown blankets tossed over everyone
as if one case applies to all. Paul Gilbert did it. So can/should you.

It's like we live in a world/culture where the notion that willpower and determination can overcome everything
is a sort of unconscious religion that we all follow. People think they are "fat" because they don't have enough of
this magic elixir called willpower. People don't exercise because they have a lack of that juju juice that would "make"
them do it if they could access it. People become "addicted" because they lack willpower. It's all rubbish. There is so
much shame and superiority people register around the kind of unconscious cultural adoption of willpower as a panacea
for literally everything. Shame if you don't have enough of it, and a sense of moral superiority if you do. We are sinful
and lacking creatures who need to work harder if we are determined to not be disciplined enough. Go see the willpower
priests and priestesses.

I guess I am saying willpower and effort are not absolutes, and even if they were absolutes we are complex and multi-layered
beings that do not live in a vacuum.

Oh, and......





:)
 
TSJMajesty said:
This reminds of another thing we all need to be doing, especially as we age: Warm up. Similar to not going out on that field to play a pickup football game before you stretch, unless you wanna pull a hamstring (been there, done that.)
Stretch those fingers, get the blood flow going, all that stuff.
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YES! The elasticity in our joints (even in our fingers) is not what it once was, is it? :)
 
la noise said:
YES! The elasticity in our joints (even in our fingers) is not what it once was, is it? :)
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Mine get pretty elastic after I've been playing for, oh, about 3 hours on average, I've noticed! :tearsofjoy: So I guess I have to get to the gigs really early, should I start playing in a band again, eh?
 
la noise said:
I guess I am saying willpower and effort are not absolutes, and even if they were absolutes we are complex and multi-layered
beings that do not live in a vacuum.
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Conditioning plays a big part too.
You ever see Dances With Wolves? When the Native American first tastes sugar, it's like you can see his neurons exploding.
 
TSJMajesty said:
You know, it's funny (maybe not the right word, but anyway...) that ever since you cautioned me to dial it back when I was having wrist pain, I've been much more careful to listen to my body, and work on something else if I get even a slight amount of discomfort. I'll now give my wrist a break after doing 3rd fret-7th fret riffs, whereas before, I'd have just ignored it.
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Really glad to hear that!!

Makes me feel good. :)

I didn't have anyone to rein me in, and I paid for it. Got to the point that
I couldn't even pick up a guitar without jabbing pain in my wrist and forearm,
and tingling in my hands and fingers that would last even if I didn't play.

I know now that it was those dumb-ass VHS tapes and exercises with a metronome
that did me in. I was drilled to think that the repetition was the way to go, and after
being in the military right out of High School I had plenty of discipline. Probably too
much for my own good. ;)
 
Most people are average. Average people can become really good with practice. But it's going to be difficult to be as good as someone who is Well-Above average and almost impossible to be as good as someone who is Great to start with. Fortunately, music that most people want to hear doesn't require the "Best Of The Best" musicians. If you're goal is to be the fastest shredder with the most tasteful melodic phrasing, well, go for it. My advice is: Don't obsess about it. Do the best you can and have fun doing it.
 
Unless you have some special physical situation. Finger speed is not a "talent" of any source. I have know many teachers who tell this to their students.

The speed playing on guitar is the same speed that every hand movement we do daily, except in a focused or coordinated way. This is very "dissimilar" to athletic speed which involves "power" or muscle to help explode the movement.

Fine motor movements needs to be coordinate and trained with focus. I have never - EVER - had a student that couldn't learn to play "fast" unless two factors existed:

1. They could not hear what they were playing - this is the most critical - esp for shredders who don't play melodies or lines.
2. They did not properly train their focus and coordinated movements - basically - practice in context.

IF you set a metronome at a certain speed and play a scale you will never get faster than a certain speed, but if you take a phrase and put into context, the speed is basically only limited to the same limits human hands have for fine motor movements.

Knocking on a door is "Almost" as fast as many of the fastest of alternate pickers. If you can knock on a door 4 times in a flurry "da-da-da-da" you 1/4 notes and everyone can just about do it at the same speed - maybe some fraction of error. That same activity is about the same speed you move your hands to alternate pick.

Now there are some exceptions and remember "provided" you learn to do number 1 and 2.

Some people have a predisposition to understand the language of music, but it is a language and if your brain does not have any condition, such as a language "disability" then you can take all of the skills you used to acquire language ( learn to read, write, speak, etc) you can easily apply them to other languages - spanish, german, and even music.

Humans are born improvisers - we do it on this forum and if you can type a message here without looking at a paper to tell you what to write you can do it with music too....but it takes effort and work - lots of it.
 
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