On the gig, need help !

[GuyJames]

My output 2 is muted when I turn off copy output 1, why is that and how do set this to get independent stereo or non-stereo control from each out put?

 

[Moke]

You would need an Output 2 block setup in your routing grid of the presets if you turn 'Copy Output 1' off.

Why do you want/need to turn it off at a gig?

 

[KFF]

Hate to be obvious, but is Output 2 volume knob turned up?

 

[GuyJames]

You would need an Output 2 block setup in your routing grid of the presets if you turn 'Copy Output 1' off.

Why do you want/need to turn it off at a gig?

Ahh I see. I’ll set that up. Thank you brother. Sometimes I have two monitors of my own and sometimes I don’t. Most of the time we’re forced to run mono to FOH though so to run mono foh and stereo on stage I need to disable copy out 1

 

[Moke]

Ahh I see. I’ll set that up. Thank you brother. Sometimes I have two monitors of my own and sometimes I don’t. Most of the time we’re forced to run mono to FOH though so to run mono foh and stereo on stage I need to disable copy out 1

Not necessarily. You can still use 'Copy Out 1', and still have the ability to set Out 1 to mono and out 2 to stereo.

However, I would just leave 'Out 1' set to stereo and just use the left or right send. And just make sure to design my presets to work in mono or stereo.

 

[GuyJames]

Not necessarily. You can still use 'Copy Out 1', and still have the ability to set Out 1 to mono and out 2 to stereo.

However, I would just leave 'Out 1' set to stereo and just use the left or right send. And just make sure to design my presets to work in mono or stereo.

By leaving Output 1 in stereo but just running the left of out 1 would work in a single amp rig but on the fm9 I run dual amps so it’s probably best that I select Sum L/R actually over Copy L/R correct? That way I’m summing the amps together and not just copying the left amp to the right (correct me if I’m wrong).

Your last comment is great and really a discussion in itself. Designing presets to work exclusively for stereo, mono or kind of both…

I’ve just jumped into fractal land and been loving the stereo stuff. I tried building mono presets of my stereo presets but it was an overwhelming amount of editor work and I just decided I’ll flick that Sum L/R switch and call it a day.

How do you go about optimizing a preset for stereo/mono in one preset? For example, no cab panning? Moving all stereo effects width to 0%?

 

[sick pickle]

Your last comment is great and really a discussion in itself. Designing presets to work exclusively for stereo, mono or kind of both…

+1 to this. This is one area of the Fractal verse I have not yet figured out with confidence. Even after reading the manual and trying things myself.

I avoid 2 amp setups because I really don't know what will happen if I need to get into a mono situation. It just seems unnecessarily complicated (for my use case) - but totally understand FAS gives us MORE flexibility to cover almost anyone's needs. It just scares me ahah.

 

[Deadpool_25]

By leaving Output 1 in stereo but just running the left of out 1 would work in a single amp rig but on the fm9 I run dual amps so it’s probably best that I select Sum L/R actually over Copy L/R correct? That way I’m summing the amps together and not just copying the left amp to the right (correct me if I’m wrong).

Just don't pan the amps?

 

[Deadpool_25]

+1 to this. This is one area of the Fractal verse I have not yet figured out with confidence. Even after reading the manual and trying things myself.

I avoid 2 amp setups because I really don't know what will happen if I need to get into a mono situation. It just seems unnecessarily complicated (for my use case) - but totally understand FAS gives us MORE flexibility to cover almost anyone's needs. It just scares me ahah.

Same with this one I think. You can run dual amps in mono...just don't pan the amps.

 

[GuyJames]

Same with this one I think. You can run dual amps in mono...just don't pan the amps.

So I actually don’t pan the amps but I do hard pan the IR’s. So then Summing L/R would still be more accurate than Copy L/R right?

since this convo is kind of turning my attention toward how to most conveniently convert stereo presets to mono here’s a thought. On the Global preset page where we can assign functions; if I attached the cab block IR’s panning parameter switched them to centered that would probably help optimize them for a mono situation? Without trying this though I think the panning would reset if you had channel changing in the cab block between scenes so the can block would need to be scene ignored and the preset would have to use the same cab/ir’s across scenes.

 

[Deadpool_25]

Don't pan the IRs either

 

[GuyJames]

Don't pan the IRs either

So just to clarify, here’s a few set up scenarios for someone that has a stereo optimized preset:

1: stereo on stage and foh, user has freedom to pan anything they want and set outputs to stereo.

2: Mono FOH and stereo on stage to personal cabs, user should have an out 2 block that feeds their personal monitors the stereo panning and out 1 switched from stereo to Sum L/R giving foh either just the left or right line of output 1.

3: mono FOH and mono on stage: switch both output 1 & 2 to Sum l/r.

* In a single amp rig that uses no panning in the IR’s, changing the output 1 to sum or copy is not necessary but If IR’s are panned in a single amp rig or in dual amp rigs that are panned in the amp, IR or both, it’s best to use SUM L/R in any of the mono makeshift situations.

Lastly, I understand that building a mono preset from the start is truly the optimal way run mono but in my experience, building separate presets becomes super time consuming so the intent here is to clarify optimal mono makeshift situations where stereo is available on one output but not the other.

 

[playmusic]

I've also been uncertain about some of the best practices for an only mono setup. Below is my current understanding and some questions regarding running in mono. I may not have listed some parameter adjustments I should be making for mono presets. Please make corrections or additions as needed.

• Set 'Stereo Spread' param to 0%? There may be a good reason, but I am not sure why this parameter exists on mono versions of effects like 'Analog Mono' flanger. And since that param is on the mono version, should it default to 0%? Same question on Reverbs and any other blocks with 'Stereo Spread'. Should 'Stereo Spread' be set to 0%? While setting 'Stereo Spread' to 0% for a mono setup seems like it should be the proper choice, are there times when the effect block (in a mono setup) would benefit from retaining the stereo spread? I know it is subjective, but would it sound "better".
• For presets built in mono from the ground up, avoid ping-pong delays and panning, use Half-Stereo or Dual Mono
• For stereo presets or a mix of mono and stereo presets, to minimize having to edit all your stereo presets, you may as @GuyJames pointed out, want to use the 'Summed Mono' setting. This can introduce artifacts and cancellation though, so you still may need to make some tweaks to your stereo presets, when using 'Summed Mono' in a mono setup.
• To get consistent results in a mono setup, unless you create a selection of presets intended specifically for mono, it seems that some degree of parameter tweaking is going to be required to get optimal results from running stereo presets in mono. Depending on what blocks those stereo presets are using and how they are configured and panned. For example, for auditioning Factory presets in a mono setup, you might want to use Summed Mono, and make parameter adjustments to the Factory presets where necessary.

From the FM9 manual:

Stereo: No special settings required.

Half-Stereo: Leaving the FM9 in its default stereo configuration but connecting only its left or output results in a “half-stereo” setup. This works fine, aside from the exceptions mentioned above (ping-pong, panning, etc). No special settings required.

Dual Mono: If you want to force your rig to mono, dual mono is a good choice. Sonically, this is identical to half-stereo, with the same limitations, except that mono signal is produced at both the left and right jacks so you can connect to two monitors. To switch to dual mono, open SETUP: I/O: Audio and set Mode for the desired output to “COPY L->R”.

Summed Mono: In this setup, left and right channels are added together resulting in an identical mono signal at both left and right outputs. This has the advantage of not discarding half of the sound, but summing has its own issues. For example, short delays or phase differences between channels can result in strange artifacts or even cancellation. To switch to summed mono, open SETUP: I/O: Audio and set Mode for the desired output to “SUM L+R

 

[GuyJames]

I've also been uncertain about some of the best practices for an only mono setup. Below is my current understanding and some questions regarding running in mono. I may not have listed some parameter adjustments I should be making for mono presets. Please make corrections or additions as needed.

• Set 'Stereo Spread' param to 0%? There may be a good reason, but I am not sure why this parameter exists on mono versions of effects like 'Analog Mono' flanger. And since that param is on the mono version, should it default to 0%? Same question on Reverbs and any other blocks with 'Stereo Spread'. Should 'Stereo Spread' be set to 0%? While setting 'Stereo Spread' to 0% for a mono setup seems like it should be the proper choice, are there times when the effect block (in a mono setup) would benefit from retaining the stereo spread? I know it is subjective, but would it sound "better".
• For presets built in mono from the ground up, avoid ping-pong delays and panning, use Half-Stereo or Dual Mono
• For stereo presets or a mix of mono and stereo presets, to minimize having to edit all your stereo presets, you may as @GuyJames pointed out, want to use the 'Summed Mono' setting. This can introduce artifacts and cancellation though, so you still may need to make some tweaks to your stereo presets, when using 'Summed Mono' in a mono setup.
• To get consistent results in a mono setup, unless you create a selection of presets intended specifically for mono, it seems that some degree of parameter tweaking is going to be required to get optimal results from running stereo presets in mono. Depending on what blocks those stereo presets are using and how they are configured and panned. For example, for auditioning Factory presets in a mono setup, you might want to use Summed Mono, and make parameter adjustments to the Factory presets where necessary.

From the FM9 manual:

Stereo: No special settings required.

Half-Stereo: Leaving the FM9 in its default stereo configuration but connecting only its left or output results in a “half-stereo” setup. This works fine, aside from the exceptions mentioned above (ping-pong, panning, etc). No special settings required.

Dual Mono: If you want to force your rig to mono, dual mono is a good choice. Sonically, this is identical to half-stereo, with the same limitations, except that mono signal is produced at both the left and right jacks so you can connect to two monitors. To switch to dual mono, open SETUP: I/O: Audio and set Mode for the desired output to “COPY L->R”.

Summed Mono: In this setup, left and right channels are added together resulting in an identical mono signal at both left and right outputs. This has the advantage of not discarding half of the sound, but summing has its own issues. For example, short delays or phase differences between channels can result in strange artifacts or even cancellation. To switch to summed mono, open SETUP: I/O: Audio and set Mode for the desired output to “SUM L+R

Reverse engineering your comment,

If the user (like myself) is using a stereo optimized preset ad specially has panning in either the amp, cab or both, I think summing is the way to go and if there's any artifacts or phasing then the user just has to deal with it for those SUM L/R scenarios.

"To get consistent results in a mono setup, unless you create a selection of presets intended specifically for mono, it seems that some degree of parameter tweaking is going to be required to get optimal results from running stereo presets in mono."

When I tried building copies of my stereo presets to audition against the SUM L/R stereo versions I didn't feel a significant difference so I abandoned the excessive parameter tweaking.

 

[Dave Merrill]

I'm inclined to build stereo presets, and just avoid constructs I know will disappear in mono, mainly the 2290.

 

[GuyJames]

I'm inclined to build stereo presets, and just avoid constructs I know will disappear in mono, mainly the 2290.

Make sure phase reverse is set to both and the 2290 still works in sum l/r. Not sure if this defeats the purpose of the 2290 though.

 

[dsouza]

You won't hear out 2 unless you have out 2 setup in your preset. If you only have out1 setup in your preset and want out2 to also work exactly the same make out 2 copy out 1. It's quite simple.

 

[GuyJames]

You won't hear out 2 unless you have out 2 setup in your preset. If you only have out1 setup in your preset and want out2 to also work exactly the same make out 2 copy out 1. It's quite simple.

When you know that it's quite simple but I overlooked that by turning off copy out 1 to out 2 that it then needs an out 2 block. Another member helped thankfully.

 

[Jtroop]

I've been searching the forum for an answer and I think this thread has finally helped me sort out playing mono with stereo presets.

Lets see if I understand this... I do not run stereo when playing live. I have a few stereo presets that have two amps hard panned L/R and panned cabs. I should set output one to SUM L+R when playing these presets. AND if output one is set to COPY L>R, I should reposition the amps and cabs to the center.

I've been trying to get this correct for a while now. The problem is, I have a few presets purchased that were built for stereo. At home, great, set output one to stereo and run to my monitors. I want to play those presets live, so I've been setting output one to SUM L+R to run mono to FOH. I'm aware of phase cancelation issues on certain delays like the 2290 when in SUM L+R, I just use a different delay.

BUT....what about the input mode of the cab block? If the preset has this set to stereo when using two IRs, should I leave it in stereo if I am running SUM L+R or would switching the cab block input mode to SUM L+R be better? Anyone in the know?

 

[Dave Merrill]

I'd suggest contacting the author of your purchased presets and ask them what they'd suggest for using them live in mono. They must have a plan for that.