Ok wish me luck last chance for my CLR today with the full band

Two CLRs are rated to output 1000 watts. There is no Marshall amp on the planet that will output that kind of power, tube or not.

The phrase "tube watts" is a misnomer. A watt is a watt, always. The phrase "tube watts" just refers to the idea that a tube amp is rated at a lower output power level than it can sustain because amp wattage is usually rated based on how loud it can get before distorting the signal. But because tube amps are specifically designed to distort, they'll usually get a lot louder than their official rating. Also, there's really no universal standard for wattage rating anyway, so a lot of companies cheat. Some companies might only measure an amp's capability to output a simple 1k sine wave, for example.

However, even taking all that into account, two CLRs will drown out pretty much any tube amp on the planet given the same input.
 
Ok this is a CLR thread, but. I have 2 Mackie HD1221s and they are louder than my friend's two 4x12 cabs with a 9100 Marshall. And I don't have to be afraid of fighting with the bass and other instruments. Cutting lows and highs is one of the most important tweaks. And I can play even louder than before, without disturbing any other Instruments. Very useful in a band situation.
 
kmanick said:
here are the 3 main patches I used at rehearsal
View attachment 24460
View attachment 24459
View attachment 24458
User cabs
U70= OH MAR-CB J12-BB T1 Median
U073=4X12 BasketWeave TV 421
U58= OH MAR-CB V30-EN T1 Stud-Mdrn
Click to expand...

I had time to look at your Plexi 50W Jump patch. To me it sounded way too heavily compressed, and very lacking in the mid to high mids.
I basically rebuilt it, trying to keep the same tone.
- removed the Drive and instead using the boost on the amp block instead with scene controller 1
- changed the Reverb to hi quality and mix to 11% (it sounds much cleaner with high quality)
- changed the delay to mono tape and mix to 11%
- redid the GEQ and added another PEQ for scenes 2 and 3 as I assumed they were for lead breaks
- reset the cab block, changed to stereo Ultrares and adjusted the cuts there, as IMO you should only cut once, not mulitiple times.
- used the high quality preamp and set it to tube and used the tone controls to fine tune there.

Here is my edit. Plexi_50W_Severed
I also used 2 of the UR IR's included with the firmware downloads;
Cab Left - OH-412-MAR-CB_L-BB_RBN-121
Cab Right - TAF_mars4x12_mix_room

Check it tell me what you think. PS use the looper and tweak from a little distance, it's really works wonders. Oh yea, I always dial it in a little more than required as I use my volume on my guitar to dynamically control the gain, so try rolling your volume back a little before tweaking :)

Oh I never touched the X amp or scene 4 and above, the compressor, wah or chorus, and I never touched the line sending to FX loop which I assume is for running into a poweramp/real cab.
 
well I got a chance to try your version of my patch tonight.
sounds like 5 of my other Plexi patches, so I appreciate the effort but the sound of FRFR compared to a real speaker cab is apparently just not my cup of tea.

My buddy is lending me his Carvin TS100 tomorrow for the weekend, if I like that I may just use the Axe with that
otherwise I think I'll just keep the axe at home for recording and use my JVM and a CabClone to go directly to FOH
 
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kmanick said:
My buddy is lending me his Carvin TS100 tomorrow for the weekend, if I like that I may just use the Axe with that
Click to expand...

It's a pretty linear power amp. Give it a shot, maybe you'll like it. If not, there's nothing at all wrong with doing that 4CM with your JVM. Or even using the JVM's power section as your power amp. The cool thing is there's no right or wrong way to use it. I get it...getting used to going FRFR can be a process and maybe everyone isn't ready for it, or even used to it. No matter what amplification you're using. I made the switch pretty easily because I'd been keeping my stage volume from my amps low and hearing a lot of myself from my monitors for a few years. The switch was less painful...but oh so satisfying.

One word of caution about the TS100...don't try to bias it yourself. I don't know why Carvin literally makes it so you can kill yourself doing so, but they built it on the cheap and that's what you get.
 
JW123 said:
Ive used stacks for years and decided I wanted to sound better to the audience, it seems maybe you guys are just playing too loud to begin with,
Click to expand...


^^^

I know, but still...

I use 2 CLR's set to back line and stacked... I sit in a chair and they are facing me. K I L L E R... and loud. But playing out with loud drummers and keyboardist's may just overpower these as I have not tried this yet. But I do know that if the CLR's sound good alone, that tone shouldn't go tinny when other players show up, unless something has changed on your end.
 
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kmanick said:
well I got a chance to try your version of my patch tonight.
sounds like 5 of my other Plexi patches, so I appreciate the effort but the sound of FRFR compared to a real speaker cab is apparently just not my cup of tea.

My buddy is lending me his Carvin TS100 tomorrow for the weekend, if I like that I may just use the Axe with that
otherwise I think I'll just keep the axe at home for recording and use my JVM and a CabClone to go directly to FOH
Click to expand...


What does a real speaker cab sound like with a mic in front of it though ?
 
kmanick said:
well I got a chance to try your version of my patch tonight.
sounds like 5 of my other Plexi patches, so I appreciate the effort but the sound of FRFR compared to a real speaker cab is apparently just not my cup of tea.

My buddy is lending me his Carvin TS100 tomorrow for the weekend, if I like that I may just use the Axe with that
otherwise I think I'll just keep the axe at home for recording and use my JVM and a CabClone to go directly to FOH
Click to expand...

No prob. I didn't think it was that bad /shrug :p
hope you find your sound.
 
Severed said:
No prob. I didn't think it was that bad /shrug :p
hope you find your sound.
Click to expand...

It wasn't bad, it was quite good actually....but really nothing that made me go ........."damn ! there it is".
I actually use those 2 IRs on other patches I have so I felt "dialed in" right away with your patch.

I mean even Cliff stated earlier on in this thread he's not a fan of FRFR for stage monitoring.

I think I've already found "my sound" with my real amp. I'm hoping with the power amp I grab today I can get close enough
with the Axe that it's workable for me. so I can send a patch like the one you just set up to FOH and do my own thing with out 2
that way...................all problems solved :)
what can I say....I'm a picky bastard when it comes to what I play through :)
 
kmanick said:
you're not getting my entire dilemma with this whole FRFR issue.
Click to expand...

No I get it, you want you hear yourself through a guitar amp, instead of via a FRFR. Seems your prepared to spend a lot of extra money, and haul around a lot of extra equipment in order to do so as well. More power to ya if that is what you need in order to be able to play. I'm simply addressing the question of what is your live tone really defined as then ? The sound of your Axe (or a mic'd cab) going to FOH that a majority hears , or the sound you hear standing on stage in front of your amp ?

You talk about finding "your sound" and that is great. Just seems that unless you invite me onto stage with you, I won't be enjoy hearing "your sound" if I go see you play.

That is the point I feel your not getting. 8 pages of thread about trying to make your tone sound right to you, and nothing about how it sounds to the FOH.
 
Feeling disconnected the entire time I was playing is much more of an issue to me.
I don't know about you personally but if I don't 'connect" with a piece of gear whether it's an amp
or a guitar , I don't want it. I don't have to convince myself "that's the way to do it" or "get used to it".
I'm sorry , "no thanks".
People have been mic'ing cabs for decades. Suddenly that doesn't work anymore because you went out and invested
into a modeling system? ya...........ok if that makes you feel better about your gear acquisitions then good for you.
I've lost track of how many people have come by by place and said "what you're playing through a f*cking monitor now?
you're kidding right? that sounds like ............well a f*cking monitor"
I'm having this same discussion on another forum fight now, where lots of people gig with the Axe FX and real amps.
Going back and forth from there to here is like going back and forth between Fox news and MSNBC
after an Obama state of the union address.
Opinions couldn't differ more.
Mods feel free to close this thread, I really don't have anything more to add here.
 
I think theres a major point being missed in this thread and that sounding good to yourself on stage is 10000000000x more important that sounding good FOH. The one thing that is constant in all shows is that 99.9% of people there have no preference about your guitar tone. They are there to hear 'the band' and not only will they probably not care about how lush your tone is, you could probably make major mistakes in every song and zero fucks would be given by the audience unless you happen to be playing in a VERY popular band with a rabid fan base.

Being happy with your own sound is far more important as it will make it far easier for you to get into it and deliver a good performance to the audience.

Besides if your tone sucks you can always blame the sound guy and everyone will believe you! :D
 
kmanick said:
Opinions couldn't differ more.
Mods feel free to close this thread, I really don't have anything more to add here.
Click to expand...

It was already borderline AMPS/CABS section, so moving there. If folks want to continue the debate, they can there.

(If you really want to delete it, delete the 1st post in the thread, and it will get rid of it all.)

R
 
nick1527 said:
I think theres a major point being missed in this thread and that sounding good to yourself on stage is 10000000000x more important that sounding good FOH. The one thing that is constant in all shows is that 99.9% of people there have no preference about your guitar tone. They are there to hear 'the band' and not only will they probably not care about how lush your tone is, you could probably make major mistakes in every song and zero fucks would be given by the audience unless you happen to be playing in a VERY popular band with a rabid fan base.

Being happy with your own sound is far more important as it will make it far easier for you to get into it and deliver a good performance to the audience.

Besides if your tone sucks you can always blame the sound guy and everyone will believe you! :D
Click to expand...

and.........................he gets it :)
 
Don't delete it... even though there is some differences between posters, it does offer insight to the fact that the Axe is not a one type of solution pre.

kmanick needs to hear his tone through a tube power amp and guitar cab while he is one stage with the rest of his mates, nothing wrong with that. I like to use FRFR in stereo while I'm on stage and most would say that's a waste of time and effort but I'm fine with that and it totally inspires me. Point being that the options are there for us as we see fit. While some will argue that one way is better that the other they both have there place and that is the best news for those that are looking for something that will do both and do it very well.
 
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If im honest I probably dont even care that much about my tone when im playing gigs.

Can i hear the drummer, myself and the other guitarist? (in that order of importance)
Can I be heard in the context of the band?

Anything beyond these two points is a luxury and I'd go as far as to say caring about anything beyond these two points is going to enrage local sound guys, as they are fully aware of the points made in my previous post!
 
I almost always sing backgrounds, so unfortunately for me :), I have to hear the lead voc too in my monitors or in ears lol
 
GreatGreen said:
Two CLRs are rated to output 1000 watts. There is no Marshall amp on the planet that will output that kind of power, tube or not.

The phrase "tube watts" is a misnomer. A watt is a watt, always. The phrase "tube watts" just refers to the idea that a tube amp is rated at a lower output power level than it can sustain because amp wattage is usually rated based on how loud it can get before distorting the signal. But because tube amps are specifically designed to distort, they'll usually get a lot louder than their official rating. Also, there's really no universal standard for wattage rating anyway, so a lot of companies cheat. Some companies might only measure an amp's capability to output a simple 1k sine wave, for example.
However, even taking all that into account, two CLRs will drown out pretty much any tube amp on the planet given the same input.
Click to expand...

A watt is a watt ?? This simply is not true. I own a S-Load of all the equipment types in question and I guaranty you that the tube watts are not equal to their SS counter parts - I really don't know, or care why. But I do know for certain that a 2x22 watt mesa 20/20 will melt a SS pushing 2x22 watts. My Matrix GT1000 kicks butts (1.000w stereo then adjust for OHMS to see that it is not pushing 1,000 watts BTW) But my shiva gets just about as loud and it is the 6L6 1 generation rated at 60W - you better have ear plugs with it. Yeah the Matrix at 1,000 can hold its own and probably slightly win, and so can the CLR - But it is not comparable based on watts vs. resulting Db. output
Not meaning to argue, but that statement can't possibly be true.
 
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