Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GIANT?

I am looking for the best board for my Ultra. I can't seem to get my hands on an MFC-101 before the new year. I used to own a Gordius and it was brilliant. For the Axe-Fx it seems to be even more perfect:

GORDIUS PROS
-Easy synching Axe-fx setups with usb and gordius software without programming
-Smaller
-More flexible with setups, sets, songs, etc or anything that's not in your axe-fx
-2-way midi communication
-phantom power through 7/7 midi cable
-cheaper


MFC-101 PROS
-Axe-Fx synch without use of computer/usb connection!!!
-larger/more buttons
-all of the other things the gordius can, except fast and easy setlist/song/advanced programming through USB

So which would you chose? Go for the smaller/cheaper Gordius now that can do almost everything the MFC can (except direct synch) or wait for the MFC-101 and mess around for the next few gigs until I get it... maybe....in a few months....?

Tough call. That direct synch on the MFC-101 is a powerful feature, but there are a lot of cons to balance that out (no easy USB programming outside the box, long wait, more expensive)
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

I have an LG, I have been considering MFC but have decided to stick with the LG. All I want to do is switch patches so the LG has more than enough buttons to do that. The LG has a lot of things going for it, compact size and lower cost, superb programmability, the fact that it acts as a USB midi interface is a massive plus. As you say the lack of direct sync is a bit of a pain but I'm sure Xavier will address this soon. The other small negative is that the number of characters in the Axe patch names don't match the LG display precisely and can cause the characters wrap around the display. I have had the best customer support from Gordius period.

I'm sure the MFC is a brilliant product but I can't find enough positives for me to switch to using one.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

POB said:
I have an LG, I have been considering MFC but have decided to stick with the LG. All I want to do is switch patches so the LG has more than enough buttons to do that. The LG has a lot of things going for it, compact size and lower cost, superb programmability, the fact that it acts as a USB midi interface is a massive plus. As you say the lack of direct sync is a bit of a pain but I'm sure Xavier will address this soon. The other small negative is that the number of characters in the Axe patch names don't match the LG display precisely and can cause the characters wrap around the display. I have had the best customer support from Gordius period.

I'm sure the MFC is a brilliant product but I can't find enough positives for me to switch to using one.

+1 The LG's features are brilliant.
I do like the MFC design though. So I hope 2011 will bring a LG3 in a new housing, kinda like the MFC.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

For me the key question would be: how many switches do I want? And in relation to that: what footcontroller size do I want?

If you need/want a lot of IA switches (like for a virtual pedalboard approach) I'd say choose the MFC.
While the LG can give you a lot more patches than switches per bank (with dependency rules), it's a lot more programming.

If you're like me and small size and flexibility are more valuable to you (and you're willing to invest more time in programming), go for the LG.
Great pro points for the LG:
- at least equally good customer service, with frequent updates, wished for features being added; a completely new and enhanced setup structure is in the makes
- HUGE dynamic storage space for patches, banks... whatever
- graphical display with several modes
- USB port, that allows editing via computer editor AND adds 2x2 midi interface, so you can use Axe-Edit with your Axe-Fx at the same time and even another midi connection. By the way, updating the Axe-Fx firmware is a breeze, I never had errors.

About the Axe-Fx mode: if that's the mode you'd use most and want to edit your patches from the front panel, get the MFC.
Last minute changes at rehearsals or gigs can be made without editing the MFC.
I do most of patch and controller programming at home, so I don't care for direct sync'ing.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

Great thoughts all of them! But Sebastian, are you telling me that the Little Giant can act as a USB/Midi interface to update the Axe-Fx with Axe Edit?

That'd be a huge selling point.

Also, do you think direct synch will ever be possible on the LG2?
As far as the Gordius goes, I am tempted by the Little Big Giant 2 with all those switches allowing for both presets and stompboxes.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

Joost Assink said:
Great thoughts all of them! But Sebastian, are you telling me that the Little Giant can act as a USB/Midi interface to update the Axe-Fx with Axe Edit?

That'd be a huge selling point.

Also, do you think direct synch will ever be possible on the LG2?
As far as the Gordius goes, I am tempted by the Little Big Giant 2 with all those switches allowing for both presets and stompboxes.

I'm not Sebastian :)
But yes, it's USB/MIDI interface too, allowing (under Windows) simultaneous use of Axe-Edit and LG Control Center.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

yek said:
Joost Assink said:
Great thoughts all of them! But Sebastian, are you telling me that the Little Giant can act as a USB/Midi interface to update the Axe-Fx with Axe Edit?

That'd be a huge selling point.

Also, do you think direct synch will ever be possible on the LG2?
As far as the Gordius goes, I am tempted by the Little Big Giant 2 with all those switches allowing for both presets and stompboxes.

I'm not Sebastian :)
But yes, it's USB/MIDI interface too, allowing (under Windows) simultaneous use of Axe-Edit and LG Control Center.

Yes to updating your Axe-Fx fiirmware with the LG. Probably to the sync question. Xavier told me he would look into this at some point.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

Yes, direct sync might be implemented some day. But don't count on that, as the LG is still intended to be an "all purpose" controller, not an unofficial Axe-Fx controller ;)

Speaking of updating the Axe-Fx - you could use Axe-Edit for that, choosing the LG as midi interface.
But I always use the "send any sysex" option in the LG Control Center, because Xavier implemented it for sending rather big
sysex files without errors. Otherwise there can be problems, which is due to the windows usb-to-midi standard driver.
For everything else (patches, banks, cab IRs) you can use what you want (Axe-Edit, midiOX, etc.).
By the way, if you use a 5-pin midi cable (or 7-pin for phantom power), it's just one cable from Axe-Fx to LG and one USB cable to computer. Very tidy.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

Oh man this is all much cooler and easier than I thought. The Gordius it is then!

And Alexander, a fellow-cheese head. Nice to meet you! I just looked at your setup and it looks like I'll have the exact same setup: I ordered Verve12Mas and ultra and plan to get the little big giant!
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

Joost Assink said:
Oh man this is all much cooler and easier than I thought. The Gordius it is then!

And Alexander, a fellow-cheese head. Nice to meet you! I just looked at your setup and it looks like I'll have the exact same setup: I ordered Verve12Mas and ultra and plan to get the little big giant!

Well done. Don't hesitate to contact if you have questions.
Waar woon je?
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

I like to have more buttons like the MFC-101 but the LG has so much morte advantages that this is really a no brainer.
Especially is you use more than just the Axe-fx.
And I had the privilege to meet the guy and what he has up his sleeve is more than anyone can imagine.
I've seen him program this thing and he is just unbelievable.
He thinks so far out off the box that, if he would be able to make a living by selling midi controllers, he would be so far ahead of the competition...
Most controllers are restricted to 3 x 128 presets, songs or IA's but his will go over 1000 when the new firmware will be ready.
And his support is on par with Fractal's.
If I had the money, I would buy both, but if I had to choose I would go for Gordius.
....
Oh, I already did ;-)
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

Ik woon net onder Deventer.

Yeah I just talked to Xavier again and I'll be ordering the little big giant 2 tomorrow. Feels so good to order from him again. And from my initial impression from Fractal these past two weeks (they have yet to reply to any of my emails), Xavier can teach them a thing or two about service and response.

I just saw some of his axe-fx videos and it's insane how easy it is to program it and keep it synched. Plus the 2x2 midi interface thing and future feature and firmware updates and it's become a no-brainer. The little big giant will give me all the buttons I need.
I also ordered a mission sp1-lg and I'm in gear heaven!
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

Joost Assink said:
Yeah I just talked to Xavier again and I'll be ordering the little big giant 2 tomorrow. Feels so good to order from him again. And from my initial impression from Fractal these past two weeks (they have yet to reply to any of my emails), Xavier can teach them a thing or two about service and response.

Xavier certainly has great customer support but so does Fractal,
delay must have something to do with THIS .
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

Muris_Varajic said:
[quote="Joost Assink":pcyarvkh]
Yeah I just talked to Xavier again and I'll be ordering the little big giant 2 tomorrow. Feels so good to order from him again. And from my initial impression from Fractal these past two weeks (they have yet to reply to any of my emails), Xavier can teach them a thing or two about service and response.

Xavier certainly has great customer support but so does Fractal,
delay must have something to do with THIS .[/quote:pcyarvkh]

I agree. FAS / Atomic have a lot going on at the moment, so one has to keep everything in perspective.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

Joost Assink said:
GORDIUS PROS
-Easy synching Axe-fx setups with usb and gordius software without programming
-Smaller
-More flexible with setups, sets, songs, etc or anything that's not in your axe-fx
-2-way midi communication
-phantom power through 7/7 midi cable
-cheaper
You forgot a few Gordius pros, actually a bunch!
My favorites
-Xavier often programs what his customers want - including bizarre stuff you never find anywhere else, and he gets out firmware updates regularly!
-Full 2X2 midi interface AND usb port with ability to talk to-from midi, to-from usb using just two cables (because you already have interface built into footswitch)
-Ability to send typical midi and rarely supported midi like pitch bend, note on/off, and more
-ability to stream a massive list of commands with a single button

Don't get me started, and BTW, I'm glad you're getting one. They're really cool and tons of functionality to explore if you so desire.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

MisterE said:
If I had the money, I would buy both,

I do own both, and both are excellent. What a world we live in to have such niche awesomeness!

Joost, I see you've already chosen the LG, and I'm sure you'll get awesome mileage out of it, but I felt this was a bit of an LG-fest that I felt compelled to offer some counterbalance.

Disclaimers: Xavier is a good friend; some of you may know me as his former USA upgrade/service tech. On the other side, you may also know that I suggested many features for, and then helped with the manual for the MFC.

Anyway, I wanted to add my story here. I was a Gordius fan from very early on.. one of the first in the US, I think. I helped create the "variables" feature and some other wild creative tools which I "needed" to properly control a big rig... Eventides. Guitar synths. Racks/pedals du jour. Switchblade. Etc. etc. I had banks designed to do all kinds of cool crazy stuff... "because I could." You guys have hit on a lot of what made this sort of tinkering possible with the LG. Deep flexibility. Intricate detail. Computers.

Then the big rig went away. OK, now you're on to me: this is really an Axe-Fx story more than anything else. This ultimately changed everything, but not without a period of adjustment. It took me some time to become aware of "option-itis"... as I sought it out, then rejected it. For a time, with the Ultra and the Gordius, I struggled because I always felt "compelled" to use them to their potential. I'd imagine interesting things, set them up, go, "ooh" and then generally... get back to dreaming and scheming... dialing and trial-ing. I found it hard to port this system into musical applications, whether practicing, playing, jamming, or gigging. I also began to compose less. Perform less. PLAY less. I had become a sort of scientist.
In time, I also started to make chances to observe great players and their gear up close... I saw not scientists but artists. I was struck by how relatively simple they'd keep things at their feet -- even those with truly wild sonic palettes. Dedicated controls, available all the time, made the pedalboard more of an "instrument" than a "control panel" for these guys. Then I took a step in the right direction by settling into a very simple controller setup and starting to let the Axe-Fx do the heavy lifting. For me, this kind of nullifies the "it's incredibly deep" PRO of the LG, and even turns it into a potential CON (requiring wisdom and willpower to contain).

In this light, you'll understand why I have come to appreciate the "Grab and Go" quality of the MFC, as well as the simplicity with which it can be reprogrammed if needed, even on the fly. Axe-Fx mode really means having one less box to twiddle with. If subtlety or complexity of control are needed, these ARE on tap in the MFC (custom MIDI, down to hex code, per preset/IA)... but I have really learned to lean on the incredible Ultra for this.

With both units in my studio, I use the MFC-101 with my Axe-Fx. Clinchers:

- I don't need to do anything, ever, to get my MFC to sync to the Axe-Fx. Unbox. Connect. Powerup. Done.

- I can edit anything in a pinch without a computer.

- The MFC is still a "one hander" but offers more onboard footswitches.

- I appreciate its flatter layout -- I never cared for the sloped front of the LF.

- I like its rugged stable feel. I was skittish about clobbering the encoder on top of my LG (I was perhaps hypersensitive about this because I found and helped test the fix for a bug in that unit where accidentally stepping on the unit in a certain way caused it to stop working.)

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Again, this wasn't to steer you one way or another -- I have, use, and love my own LG -- but I wanted to tell my story and make some points that I think were underrepresented in this thread.

-m@


PS: I also think it is important to point out for prosperity that the MFC is at the very beginning of its lifecycle. If it follows even approximately the same kind of upgrade path that the Axe-Fx has taken, there will be many enhancements and improvements made to satisfy both the mainstream and the fringe. Cliff, for instance, has already stated that some new features are coming in resonse to MFC "wishlisting" here.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

I hear ya Matman, though excessive tinkering on midi floorboards won't be a trap I'll fall into. I'm not much of a scientist. :mrgreen:

I agree that the MFC-101 is a wonderful tool and had it been readily available, I wouldn't even have explored an alternate setup. However, wanting an MFC-101 would mean that I would have to wait months. In Europe, I've talked to guys who ordered one as soon as it came out and are still waiting. The next shipment of MFC units coming to Europe will be around christmas at the earliest and then there still are a lot of pre-orders to fill.

With gigs coming up, I can't afford to wait this long.

On the other hand. Xavier at Gordius is contemplating adding direct synch to the LG2 as soon as the system is finalized on the MFC-101 (now there have been some changes to it in firmware updates) and he has completed other feature enhancements to the LG2 coming up soon.

And another point as a pro for the Gordius: one of the two big downsides to the interface of the Axe-Fx to me was lack of a USB port. Now I have a USB port in my system without extra boxes to carry. (the other downside, if you so wonder, is having no small knobs to twirl to quickly adjust basic parameters like gain, bass, middle, treble, etc)

Anyway, maybe if the MFC-101s become readily available to the public, I might get one.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

Ah, interesting story, Matman!

I recognize the point you make about the urge to try to implement all of the LG features, even if not necessary. A while ago I simplified things a lot although I still have a LOT of patches and presets, probably too many.

Kudos to you for your involvement in the MFC manual which is really extremely well written and organized. I don't own a MFC but I feel that I already know how to handle it, having read the manual.

I'm sure the MFC will improve more and more, with time. I like its layout. I'd consider one if it offered some really must-have features:

- Direct bank (for example by pressing Reveal twice, or holding)
At any point I want quick one-click access to any of my main (6) amp presets. So if I'm in Bank 7 I don't want to have to scroll down to Bank 1. The Global Preset is not a solution snce it's just one preset.

- More than 2 CCs per IA-switch
Needed for things such as a "Solo" switch (boosts volume, adds gain, adds delay = 3 CCs) for the current (= any) preset.

- More than 128 controller presets
My setup is organized around my controller, not the Axe-Fx. I need more than 128 controller-presets.

- Multiple press-functionality
Not just for a Global Preset. Multiple presses should be able to control only CCs as well.
Or activate ANY other preset (programmable per switch, not just one global preset). Example: I have my main 6 amp presets arranged now into 3 switches: a "clean" switch (activates/switches between 2 amp sims), a "crunch" swich (idem) and a "hi-gain" switch (idem). These are global (always on switches 1, 2 and 3) and accessible at all times.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

Joost Assink said:
And another point as a pro for the Gordius: one of the two big downsides to the interface of the Axe-Fx to me was lack of a USB port. Now I have a USB port in my system without extra boxes to carry.
The lack of USB on the Axe-Fx is an odd one and I would of thought that including it on the MFC would of been the perfect opportunity to correct this. The technical implementation of a USB port as a simple serial/midi com port is relatively easy compared to other things going on in the Axe. Given the board is regularly sprinkled with users having update issues, I don't get it.
 
Re: Now that we have to choice: MFC-101 vs GORDIUS LITTLE GI

yek said:
.....
- Direct bank (for example by pressing Reveal twice, or holding)

- More than 2 CCs per IA-switch

- More than 128 controller presets

- Multiple press-functionality.

hmm, maybe I'm spoiled with the LG2 but aren't any of these things possible on the MFC right now?
 
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