Not understanding poll question.

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Inspired
Guys, I'm not understanding one of the poll questions in the forum section about IRs. It relates to the cab block and it is 'What Tools do you use for Mixing IRs?'.
I'm due to get the Axe on Tuesday and saw if you buy all the Redwirez you get the MixIR2. I thought...this looks a handy little plug-in for mixing IRs.
But..in order to use this on a DAW would you have to disable the Axe's cab block? And would that mean that quality would be lost? [As the Axe's amp and cab blocks actually interact instead of being just simple filters].
I've got an idea [not a ground-breaking one] sort of similar to Scott P's cab and farfield mix that I would like to try out. Not for normal rhythm guitars but to get a three dimensional lead tone. [For DAW recording, not guitar amp or FRFR, etc].
It would involve using impulses with SM57 and Sennheiser 421 or Royer 121, for the main 'body' of the sound [double micing]. Then add in a room or farfield mic plus back of cab mic [for a bit of chunk]. Now I know this can be done on the Axe: one amp block, 2 cab blocks in stereo but pan all the cabs to centre. Hell, you could even just make 4 separate track copies one by one in the DAW [each done with the 4 different impulses] for a lot of control during mixing and also you'd be able to set them to hi-res mono in the Axe.
Regarding the MixIR2: can you 'bounce' down the blend of 4 impulses into a single impulse file? You could then put this into the Axe after converting it to the Axe's sysex format.
To get back to not understanding the poll question...does it mean what do you use to mix IRs i.e. is MixIR2 being used not only to blend the IRs but also to produce/render the guitar tone in the DAW [with possible loss of the Axe's amp/cab 'interaction']? Or, does it mean what do you use to just create a 'blend' to be placed in the Axe? [i.e. the audio when actually rendering/recording the guitar tone in the DAW is not run through MixIR2 but through the Axe?]
 
I'm not sure about MixIR2 and how it works (if it exports a mixed IR for you), but IR Lab does exactly what you are talking about. And they just released a version that supports AxeFXII format files and I tried it out and it works perfect. You can do up to 10 IR's in one mix.

But even better is that you don't need a DAW, all you need is a short clip recorded without the cabinet to loop while you dial it in.

And even better than that is that it scans your libraries and you can set up sort filters to load the right IR's. I estimated that the BigBox has like over 25,000 impulse responses alone. I don't want to be digging through that in explorer or something.

iProductions Audio » Products

Almost forgot the other cool thing. It will support Redwirez and Ownhammer libraries and you can mix both together if you want.
 
barhrecords said:
IIRC,

You have to watch for phase problems when you mix IR's from different vendors?

Richard
Click to expand...
I think that they're supposed to be phase aligned, but you could be right. I've mixed them inside of the AxeFX before and didn't have any issues....that I notived.
 
I remember a thread where Kevin from Ownhammer said he changed all the OH IR's such that they were mixable with the Fractal Factory IR's. This would be from the pre II days.

Not sure about RW or anybody else's though?

I'm *guessing* if you capture using the AxeFx II, you are probably okay for mixing with the other factory II IR's.

Richard
 
I'm planning on digging into IR Lab some this weekend so I'll post results. I only have the 'demo' cabs from RW and their pretty old so I would guess that if there were phase issues they'd crop up. As a matter of fact I am pretty sure that my OH IR's are old gen1 files that I converted using Axe-o-matic. If a couple of old IR's don't give me phase problems I'd say that gives us a little bit of hope.
 
Super quick info:

- the stock cabs are minimum phase aligned
- to the best of my knowledge, all of RW are also
- the OH .syx and Truncated .wav files are minimum phase, the full resolution OH .wav IR's are not - however IR-LAB pulls from the directories that have the minimum phase files. I'm not completely satisfied with the currently available market tools and what their minimum phase transformation functions can do to the sound, under certain circumstances it can absolutely butcher and puke all over things. The first 10 libraries I had that most have samples of in the Axe-II Cliff was kind enough to help me out with, and since then I've found ways and workarounds to get it done with what is out there for everyone to use, sometimes ripping out clumps of hair in the process, so that the minimum phase aligned files I have are at least 95+ % of the way there and for most files the variances are negligible in A/B listening tests. If a tool does arise that is up for public consumption or provided to me privately that I feel is 99% of the way there on anything that I can and do capture, I'll convert all of the full resolution files to minimum phase as well.

I can't comment on what the files are that the Axe-II creates with its proprietary IR capture function, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't have the Fractal minimum phase alignment processing built into the chain.
 
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ownhammer said:
Super quick info:

- the stock cabs are minimum phase aligned
- to the best of my knowledge, all of RW are also
- the OH .syx and Truncated .wav files are minimum phase, the full resolution OH .wav IR's are not - however IR-LAB pulls from the directories that have the minimum phase files. I'm not completely satisfied with the currently available market tools and what their minimum phase transformation functions can do to the sound, under certain circumstances it can absolutely butcher and puke all over things. The first 10 libraries I had that most have samples of in the Axe-II Cliff was kind enough to help me out with, and since then I've found ways and workarounds to get it done with what is out there for everyone to use, sometimes ripping out clumps of hair in the process, so that the minimum phase aligned files I have are at least 95+ % of the way there and for most files the variances are negligible in A/B listening tests. If a tool does arise that is up for public consumption or provided to me privately that I feel is 99% of the way there on anything that I can and do capture, I'll convert all of the full resolution files to minimum phase as well.

I can't comment on what the files are that the Axe-II creates with its proprietary IR capture function, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't have the Fractal minimum phase alignment processing built into the chain.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

And rock on sir!

Richard
 
@ shasha. Thanks for the reply dude. I had another look at the MixIR2 manual today and I now believe you can export mixed IRs. My real concern was with the loss of quality when using a 3rd party utility, from what you're saying about IR Lab this doesn't seem to be a problem.
 
ownhammer said:
Super quick info:

- the stock cabs are minimum phase aligned
- to the best of my knowledge, all of RW are also
- the OH .syx and Truncated .wav files are minimum phase, the full resolution OH .wav IR's are not - however IR-LAB pulls from the directories that have the minimum phase files. I'm not completely satisfied with the currently available market tools and what their minimum phase transformation functions can do to the sound, under certain circumstances it can absolutely butcher and puke all over things. The first 10 libraries I had that most have samples of in the Axe-II Cliff was kind enough to help me out with, and since then I've found ways and workarounds to get it done with what is out there for everyone to use, sometimes ripping out clumps of hair in the process, so that the minimum phase aligned files I have are at least 95+ % of the way there and for most files the variances are negligible in A/B listening tests. If a tool does arise that is up for public consumption or provided to me privately that I feel is 99% of the way there on anything that I can and do capture, I'll convert all of the full resolution files to minimum phase as well.

I can't comment on what the files are that the Axe-II creates with its proprietary IR capture function, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't have the Fractal minimum phase alignment processing built into the chain.
Click to expand...

I think it would be cool if you could provide the raw captures (i.e. the raw capture and the log sweep used); Perhaps on request based on what package you bought or maybe for an additional sum of cash; call it experimental, i.e. for people like me that would rather do their own deconvolution and time alignment. That would be the ultimate for me :)
 
Touchy subject for me with that. As opposed to spewing all sorts of tangential thoughts all over the place, I'll just say I'll think about it. :) If I did something like that it wouldn't be any time soon, and it wouldn't be as accessible as the libraries are now. If I'm being honest, I'm trying to find a polite way to say it probably isn't going to happen in this decade, at least not as a publicly available option... :eek:ops

I do sympathize with you on this though and certainly understand the benefits it could have for a select few. I know I feel better about being able to play with the captures if I want to try something, create a separate process, or simplify a workflow.
 
ownhammer said:
Touchy subject for me with that. As opposed to spewing all sorts of tangential thoughts all over the place, I'll just say I'll think about it. :) If I did something like that it wouldn't be any time soon, and it wouldn't be as accessible as the libraries are now. If I'm being honest, I'm trying to find a polite way to say it probably isn't going to happen in this decade, at least not as a publicly available option... :eek:ops

I do sympathize with you on this though and certainly understand the benefits it could have for a select few. I know I feel better about being able to play with the captures if I want to try something, create a separate process, or simplify a workflow.
Click to expand...

No problem, just a tought.
I do see that this would open a huge can of worms so I understand why you wouldn't do it.
 
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