Not going to use the "S" word, but please help me make this sound good.

T

Tamerz

Inspired
OK, so as some of you know I am one of the people complaining about the sound I am getting. And as I've mentioned, people have some killer sounding stuff with the new version so I am positive it is something on my end. This post is not to blame, but me asking for help on how to attack the problem and get some killer tone!

I am now running Ibanez SZ720FM with a Duncan JB in the bridge -> Axe-FX II 6.0 -> Matrix GT1000FX -> Randall 4x12 (V30)

So you can hear the issue I am having, here are two sound clips. I'm not concerned with sound quality here, I'm just trying to demonstrate how my setup changes the sounds.

First, a preset with cab sims on straight from the USB on the Axe:

Now, here is the exact same preset only with cab sim off and recorded with an SM57 in front of my actual cab:

Obviously there is a HUGE difference between the cab in the preset, and my physical cab. It is hard to tell by the recording, but not only does the real cab have much stronger highs, the lows are also pretty flubby.

So now before I get 100 people attacking me, I'm not blaming the Axe-FX. I'm asking for help on how to dial this in. A couple things I've played with are the PEQ to shelve off the low end. I put a steep cut on anything lower than around 100 Hz and that did help quite a bit. I however was not successful in getting rid of that super high end.

Oh great Axe-FX gurus, please give me some tips!
 
make an ir of your cab with the 57 and drop it into the axe. then you have a level playing field and your patches should transfer without too much work.

if you want to kill lows and highs, drop an 808 in front of the amp with very low gain and level on about 7 or 8

you don't say which of the two sounds you prefer, btw
 
I don't use a power amp/cab setup, so I don't really know a lot about how to dial it in.

This really just sounds like the cab sim you used to dial it in is drastically different than the actual cab you're using, plus you're using an SM57 which will color it even more. I would use the amp/cab/mic setup, but start from scratch with the amp settings and dial it in to taste.
 
dial it in using the real amp and cab. start from scratch if you have to.

then find an ir in the axe that matches your cab, or make one yourself
 
Tamerz said:
Well actually I'm not really happy with either ;) But what I want is to figure out how to make the second sound more like the first. More balanced rather than all highs and all lows.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Well there are so many variables to it, least of all microphone position. It sounds to me like you put the SM57 very close to the grille of your cab, and dead centre on the dust cap... which is where all the high-frequency content is most present. Other than that, try reducing the presence and lowering the mids slightly too.
 
To be honest, I don't like either of the recorded tones.

Is the power amp simulation switched on?

No need to use a PEQ to get rid of flubby bass. Increase the Low Cut in the Amp block instead.

Which cab sim are you using? Cab size at default? Which mic?
Post the preset?
 
yek said:
To be honest, I don't like either of the recorded tones.

Is the power amp simulation switched on?

No need to use a PEQ to get rid of flubby bass. Increase the Low Cut in the Amp block instead.

Which cab sim are you using? Cab size at default? Which mic?
Post the preset?
Click to expand...

I agree neither one sounds great. I was just trying to show the huge difference between the two by only turning off the cab sim. The power amp sim was on in both cases.

I'll try out the "Low Cut" setting. This is exactly the type of info I mean. People say "dial it in", but that is exactly the problem I am having. Looking for settings like this to try out.

I of course didn't grab the preset... tonight I'll do the same thing. I'll use a preset where I like how it sounds direct into USB. Then I'll also mic it (and use Sidivan's advice above) and post USB sound, mic sound, and the patch itself.

Once I figure out how to tune things, I'll use an IR of my cab from then on to tweak. But for now, an IR of my cab just gives me the same bad tone.
 
there's no point doing comparisons between the usb recording and the cab recording. they will never sound identical if you carry on using the cab ir in the axe that you have been...it's obviously too different to your real cab

you have to think about the variables. your amp and cab can't be changed, so you need to work within the confines of that setup. once you have a good sound through the amp and cab, you can then work on transferring that to the axe. the axe has lots of variables you can use to do that - cabs, mics, eq's etc etc - you can fine tune the sound in the axe, so that you get good results out of both signal paths.

don't forget that you can run both setups at once - make a parallel chain with a cab ir and the fx send block in it and run output 2 to your daw and output 1 to your amp. you can then flip back and forth and compare

but you have to get it sounding good through the amp and cab first
 
where was the Bass control on the Amp first page? try cutting it (some of my high gain tones, bass is almost off). this sends less flub to the rest of the chain, then i use the low cut as well to shape it, usually shelving around 200.

i know you're just trying to get the real cab to sound more like the direct USB w/ cab sim, but they are going to be 2 different beasts. i'm not sure you can make a patch where cab sim on sounds good to FRFR stuff while simply turning the cab sim off also sounds good with a real cab.

without being too loud, use your ear like a mic and go VERY close to your speaker cab while playing. about 1" away go close to the cone, then away from the middle, then move back an inch, close to the cone, away... the mic has a lot to do with what it sounds like, i'm sure you know. but to hear the changes with your own ear, for me anyway, was enlightening. then i did the same with the mic using a looper so i didn't have to play. move it around to hear how it affects the sound.

i usually mic a cab off the cone about 1 inch or a bit more depending on how bright it is naturally.
 
Are you putting the mic near the center of the speaker cap when you record? That accentuates the highs. As you move out to the edge of the speaker it tends to soften the highs some. Also experiment with the distance from the speaker itself as the proximity effect can make the bass mushy or in your face... a little too much and it's mushy, but find that sweet spot and you're right on the money. Overall mic placement makes a huge difference and I've found SM57 to be very "picky" about mic placement... meaning that even 1/2" difference can sound very different.

I usually start with the mic right about the edge of the cap and move to the center if I want more highs or out toward the edge if I want to tame the highs a bit. I usually go pretty near the grill cloth, but that's not cranking the amp up very loud. If you can go louder, I'd suggest moving the mic and inch or two away.

I apologize if you've already thoroughly experimented with mic placement and found the best spot, but I figured I'd mention it in case you were just putting the mic up there and going with it.
 
Tamerz said:
O

Obviously there is a HUGE difference between the cab in the preset, and my physical cab.
Click to expand...

I found a video on YouTube a while back that compared dozens of 4x12 cabs with v30 speakers. They all sounded very different from each other even though they all had the exact same speakers. So your 4x12 v30 cab will not necessarily sound the same as the 4x12 v30 cab in your preset.

I have found that the cab in a preset is a large part of the sound. Turning it off and using your real cab instead will sound different, even if your real cab has the exact same kind of speakers as in the preset cab. There are lots of tools to try; EQ. Parametric EQ, Tone match, turning on or off amp and cab sims, adjusting the advanced parameters in the amp and cab sections, etc. I have not found a perfect solution yet.
 
yek said:
To be honest, I don't like either of the recorded tones.

Is the power amp simulation switched on?

No need to use a PEQ to get rid of flubby bass. Increase the Low Cut in the Amp block instead.

Which cab sim are you using? Cab size at default? Which mic?
Post the preset?
Click to expand...

I love you man. The low cut made so much difference it is unreal!

Still tweaking but getting the flub out made the rest of the tuning easier. I thought the high end was my issue but after the low cut, I could hear the rest better and just turning down the regular treble control helped with that.
 
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