[NGD] Kiesel...But Pickups Sound Terrible! Help!

B:ASSMASTER

B:ASSMASTER

Experienced
Great playing guitar that I finally received. It's a DC600 with mahogany neck through, ebony fretboard and mahogany body. However, the Lithium pickups are extremely bright! I've tried different amps and IR's, but these pickups are just pure cheese grater on my ears.

I took it to a buddy's house to try through real amps, but it sucked there too. However, we tried a MXR 10-band EQ in front. Holy hell, that made a difference. But, the settings to get a good sound were a bit extreme.

So, I came back home and tried the same EQ settings on a graphic block in front of the amp block and it sounded good. Here were the settings:
  • 31Hz 0dB
  • 65Hz -1dB
  • 125Hz +4dB
  • 250Hz +2.5dB
  • 500Hz -1.5dB
  • 1kHz -2.5dB
  • 2kHz -3.5dB
  • 4kHz -6.5dB
  • 8kHz -6dB
  • 16kHz -5.5dB
As you can tell from those extreme settings, these are very bright pickups that are also lacking in the mid-bass area. I tried calling Kiesel to get the tone chart for the pups, but they weren't any help. They told me that they're not a pickup company and that I'm on my own. I was trying to see what pickups would be a good replacement for these Lithiums based off how much I had to EQ them and what would have been their "tone chart".

I really don't like the graphic EQ block solution. So, I'm needing some pickup recommendations based off all of this. I'll be playing metal and hard rock with this guitar tuned to E flat standard.

So, what would you guys recommend?
 
I had a Kiesel Vader delivered in December and I also didn't really like the lithium pickups. They were OK but too bright for me, just like you said. And the same as pretty much everyone says about the lithiums.

Pickup selection is really a personal choice. I put a dimarzio air norton in the neck, and a dimarzio satchur8 in the bridge. They're perfect for me, but I kind of already knew that I'd like them since I've used an air norton before, and used the old version Joe satriani bridge pickup.

My recommendation to you is to go to the dimarzio website and read about the different models and see which ones appeal to you. You can also call dimarzio, tell them what you're going for, and they'll recommend pickups for you. I say use dimarzio because I've tried many different models of theirs and they all sound awesome in different ways. They also have an exchange period so you can send them back and try a different model if you don't like them.
 
Here are some of the dimarzios I've tried.

Bridge pickups:
Tone zone - nice crunchy pickup with harmonics and a nice "vowel" or vocal sounding tone on a lead sound. May have too much bass compared to a lot of modern "metal" pickups. Has just an OK clean sound even when split.
D-sonic - this pickup has a lot of balls, great for heavy music. Not so great for clean sounds or soft picking. It's a pretty compressed pickup.
Crunch lab - a little beefier version of the D-sonic. It was a little too boomy for me. I liked the d-sonic better.
Evolution - this pickup screams. Harmonics jump out and they can sustain forever literally. surprisingly great clean sounds when split. It's pretty compressed though so not so great for soft picking dynamics.
Dominion - Very tight and agressive pickup with a TON of mids. It almost sounds like you have a wah half cocked all of the time. Not great cleans. Works for agressive in your face sound.
Fred - (satriani used to use this) It's crunchy with lots of harmonics and a light upper mid spike which gives it a signature sound. Great in all situations from cleans, soft picking, split, leads, riffs, you name it. This pickup just sounds good period. You pick hard, it crunches. You pick soft and it cleans up. This really showed me what all of the high output pickups were lacking.... Dynamics.

Neck pickups:
Air norton - nice smooth singing pickup but it still has an edge to it. Great for leads and cleans. This pickup is just a classic.
Evolution - pretty much just like a neck version of the evo bridge model. See above.
paf pro - nice bubbly sounding paf, very smooth yet with a crisp edge and harmonics. Sounds great split or humbucking, clean or with distortion. One of my favorites.
Dominion - just like a neck version of the dominion bridge. Too much treble for a neck pickup in my opinion.
breed neck - one of my favorite neck pickups. It's like a higher output version of the paf pro. maybe a little fatter sounding.

OK, I got a little carried away. I'm bored sorry.
 
Those pickups are terrible. I replaced my Carvin DC’s pups with a jazz and jb awhile back. I really like the nazgul/sentient combo and will probably swap those in sometime soon.
 
MSS said:
Those pickups are terrible. I replaced my Carvin DC’s pups with a jazz and jb awhile back. I really like the nazgul/sentient combo and will probably swap those in sometime soon.
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I agree. I've never heard a pickup in my 20+ years of playing sound so terrible. It's got me looking at the tone chart's from Duncan and DiMarzio and feeling scared to pick anything with a treble number over 5. And since Kiesel refuses to give a tone chart for their pickups, I have no clue what the treble on a graph would be like for the Lithium. 9? 10? A Spinal Tap 11? :D
 
searching said:
My recommendation to you is to go to the dimarzio website and read about the different models and see which ones appeal to you.
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Based off of your descriptions of the pickups you've tried and then looking at the numbers of all the high output pickups on DiMarzio's site, I'm leaning towards the Illuminator set. I think that should give me a nice metal chunky rhythm without being too harsh and a nice liquid solo tone in the neck pickup. May call DiMarzio on Monday to get their opinion.
 
If you buy from a Seymour Duncan authorized dealer they will let you try them out for 3 weeks and return/replace them if you don't like them. Bare knuckle does 2 weeks return and replace if you buy them from Bare Knuckle.
 
yeky83 said:
Eh? But they sell pickups... $90 a pop.
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Yeah. I pointed that out to him over the phone. Let's just say that he was very rude and argumentative to me. It really left a bad impression on me. I told him I wasn't going to argue, but just wanted advice. I got the opposite. He wanted to start telling me that he works in sales and nobody is buying their pickups to put in other guitars. I wasn't going to take the bait, but if you look at some of their customer reviews...there's quite a few saying that they're putting them in non Carvin/Kiesel guitars. I felt disrespected and angry after that phone call. Kiesel will never get my business again.
 
I would immediately trash the pickups and put something else in it as soon as possible

If you hate it- you'll just waste your time dialing in other stuff to fit it

and someone will see the price of the pickups and overpay used for it
 
Hah, I sold 2 carvin guitars because I could never get them to sound good regardless of the pickups. I know doesnt make sense, but was true. And I pretty much am fine with most stock mid price guitar pickups/guitars: Jackson, esp, Ibanez.
 
B:ASSMASTER said:
Based off of your descriptions of the pickups you've tried and then looking at the numbers of all the high output pickups on DiMarzio's site, I'm leaning towards the Illuminator set. I think that should give me a nice metal chunky rhythm without being too harsh and a nice liquid solo tone in the neck pickup. May call DiMarzio on Monday to get their opinion.
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I've got at least the bridge Illuminator at home (at work now), maybe the neck too, I can't remember. I think I have just the bridge. Anyway, I'll sell it at a great price if you decide that's the way you want to go.
 
symphx said:
Hah, I sold 2 carvin guitars because I could never get them to sound good regardless of the pickups. I know doesnt make sense, but was true. And I pretty much am fine with most stock mid price guitar pickups/guitars: Jackson, esp, Ibanez.
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Man, I hope that ain't the case with this guitar. But, I really do think it's the pickups. Keeping my fingers crossed.
 
jakel said:
I've got at least the bridge Illuminator at home (at work now), maybe the neck too, I can't remember. I think I have just the bridge. Anyway, I'll sell it at a great price if you decide that's the way you want to go.
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I'd definitely be interested, but I'm kinda looking for a specific set. Black with gold pole pieces and regular spacing.
 
USMC_Trev said:
Sort of an indirect measure of the quality of the Ax-Fx, wouldn't you say?

"Crappy pickups sound just as crappy on real amps as they do with the Fractal! You can't tell the difference" :D
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Wasn't trying to compare the Axe-Fx with his amps. Just wanted to see what my guitar sounded like through his rig. But I get what you're saying. ;)
 
I also don't care for the Lithiums, they don't have enough sustain/output, and they are lacking in low end chunk. I am finding it really hard to choose another pickup, because I can't find a baseline output or eq for the Lithiums... I appreciate any suggestions!

For those who have replaced their pickups in a Kiesel, Did you have any issues with routing or going to a pickup with only one mounting screw per side? I want to replace the pickups in my Kiesel, but I am worried that the base of the pickup won't fit in the direct mounting rout.
 
markyd said:
I also don't care for the Lithiums, they don't have enough sustain/output, and they are lacking in low end chunk. I am finding it really hard to choose another pickup, because I can't find a baseline output or eq for the Lithiums... I appreciate any suggestions!
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I feel ya! It sure would be nice to know what we're dealing with. Hopefully this will help you out. I EQ matched the DI of the Lithium with a Dimarzio EJ Custom in my DAW using Ozone EQ match. These two bridge pups are very similar. The EJ is a little brighter in the presence region, but surprisingly had slightly more bass. Overall though, if you want a baseline, the EJ Custom bridge is pretty close.
 
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