Newbie Question: Which switching would have no delay time in Switching sounds

G

Gary Small

New Member
I have managed to get a great Mesa Mark IIc+ lead patch going, and a nice Clean Fender Twin rhythm patch going with various effects on each.

I would like to switch between these two patches with no (or very little delay). I am also the lead singer so I don't have the window to be using the F1-F2-F3 switches and the X-Y option requires one to hold the switch down for a bit to go between. Am I correct in that I should use a S-1, S-2 etc and assign it to the bottom row for the fastest method of going between the two tones?

Thanks in advance and I am sorry I was born a dinosaur!!!!
 
You should be using Scenes. With 1 switch you make all the changes needed with no lag time. I typically organize each Preset (song) with scenes. S1 = Rhythm scene, S2 = Solo Scene, S3 =(perhaps a different lead tone).
 
changing Presets is usually the fastest and most consistent way to change Amp sounds. it's also simple to understand and design.

you can simply assign those 2 presets as switches on the AX8, rather than having to press F1, then change presets. you need to assign the switch that says P1, P2.... P8 - depending on where that preset is in your current Bank. the Bank is a set of 8 presets.

since you're changing presets, the Footswitch assignments change too. so you'll have to simply assign the preset change switch on both presets. but this is cool because you can use the same physical switch to change presets back and forth.

in preset 1, put P2 on switch 1
in preset 2, put P1 on switch 1

then pressing the same switch will basically toggle between the 2, since that switch does those functions.

you can also use Scenes to change sounds, but depending on the CPU of the preset, XY switching in the Amp block can take longer than changing Presets. you'll also have to understand setting up all sounds in a single Preset, using Scenes and XY switching as well.

so as i said, changing Presets is the easiest and most consistent way to do this. there will be an audio gap between Preset changes due to hundreds of potential parameters changing in an instant, but that's how most digital devices work.
 
So I am reading that there are two basic opinions here: Preset footswitch and Scene footswitch. Can anyone elaborate?
 
Gary Small said:
So I am reading that there are two basic opinions here: Preset footswitch and Scene footswitch. Can anyone elaborate?
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not much to elaborate on what i said earlier.

use Presets or Scenes. if you don't understand Scenes, please read the Owner's Manual to learn about exactly what they are.

if you are new to this, i suggest again using Presets to handle changing your sounds.
 
I think I get the scenes, it's basically an amp rig in digital form and you can tweak it and save in 8 different ways. Am I correct on that? I will try the Presets first as you suggested.
 
Gary Small said:
I think I get the scenes, it's basically an amp rig in digital form and you can tweak it and save in 8 different ways. Am I correct on that? I will try the Presets first as you suggested.
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no, i'd use that description for Presets. a Preset is a rig in digital form.

Scenes can turn blocks on/off and change XY for blocks.

the Owner's Manual describes this pretty well in the first few sections.
 
I apologize if this should be a separate thread, but I feel like my question might align very much with that of the OP's....so I am going to jump in here as well.

I also have found myself wanting to use entirely different amp rigs (e.g., dirty Marshall for lead, clean Fender for rhythm....or, different "Presets" in AX8 parlance), and so -- in an effort to operate my AX8 in that way -- I have sometimes configured my footswitches to operate in "Preset Mode." In this way, a single pressing of footswitch 1 yields one preset, while pressing footswitch 2 yields a completely different preset. While this method works well in general, I have found the lag time in switching between presets to be too great (too long a lag) in order to effectively switch between lead and rhythm within the same song. This observation on my part seems inconsistent with Chris' statement above; I am wondering if perhaps I am doing something wrong?

I do find -- conversely -- that I have virtually NO LAG if I instead operate the numbered 1-8 footswitches to call up "scenes" within the same preset (e.g., press F2 and then any of the switches 1-8). I also have no lag if I am simply turning ON/OFF any of the effects within a given scene. Thus, I have limited myself to pretty using only one preset for a given song, simply stomping a numbered switch to turn on/off an effect when I have to play leads. This works reasonably well, but it is a compromise. I would prefer to be able to be able to simply operate in Preset Mode and just switch between entire presets....but again, I am finding the lag time to be too great.

This doesn't to square with the guidance suggested above by more-experienced users. In my case, operator error may be a factor. I will appreciate any insights.
 
If you find a cab you can run both amps through with good results you can do an Amp X/Y switch with good results. If not, scenes with scene 1 having Amp x Cab x and Scene 2 having Amp y and Cab y would be about the same switching speed.
 
Paultergeist said:
I apologize if this should be a separate thread, but I feel like my question might align very much with that of the OP's....so I am going to jump in here as well.

I also have found myself wanting to use entirely different amp rigs (e.g., dirty Marshall for lead, clean Fender for rhythm....or, different "Presets" in AX8 parlance), and so -- in an effort to operate my AX8 in that way -- I have sometimes configured my footswitches to operate in "Preset Mode." In this way, a single pressing of footswitch 1 yields one preset, while pressing footswitch 2 yields a completely different preset. While this method works well in general, I have found the lag time in switching between presets to be too great (too long a lag) in order to effectively switch between lead and rhythm within the same song. This observation on my part seems inconsistent with Chris' statement above; I am wondering if perhaps I am doing something wrong?

I do find -- conversely -- that I have virtually NO LAG if I instead operate the numbered 1-8 footswitches to call up "scenes" within the same preset (e.g., press F2 and then any of the switches 1-8). I also have no lag if I am simply turning ON/OFF any of the effects within a given scene. Thus, I have limited myself to pretty using only one preset for a given song, simply stomping a numbered switch to turn on/off an effect when I have to play leads. This works reasonably well, but it is a compromise. I would prefer to be able to be able to simply operate in Preset Mode and just switch between entire presets....but again, I am finding the lag time to be too great.

This doesn't to square with the guidance suggested above by more-experienced users. In my case, operator error may be a factor. I will appreciate any insights.
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changing Presets does have an audio gap. it's not a "lag." things are changing immediately.

there is an audio mute/gap placed there. if you change settings immediately without it, there will be noise, pops, clicks. any digital gear does this as the same sound coming in is suddenly changing hundreds of parameters. most gear - including real amps - place either an audio gap or a fade in when changing channels or similar.

engaging and bypassing blocks do not have an audio gap because they are already "on" just not processing audio at that moment. this is different than changing Presets or XY because no settings are changing. it's simply engaging or bypassing.

if you change XY on the Amp block, there is an audio gap for the same reasons. this is important to know because many people say "Scenes have no lag/mute." but that's only if you don't use Amp XY.

i said earlier that Presets are the fastest and most consistent for changing tones. no matter the CPU usage, Presets will change with the same amount of audio gap regardless. so it's consistent. compared to Scenes changing XY, there is an audio gap when changing amp types - which is typical of a Scene change - so it's not consistent. if the CPU is low, it may be a short audio gap, if the CPU is high, it may take longer as other things need to load.

the AX8 is doing an incredible amount of things with its single CPU. it's not an Axe-Fx II. they've squeezed so much into this unit.

even with many real amps, people have to change tones slightly before the down beat so there isn't a glitch, noise or gap. again, parameters are changing instantly with the same input audio running, there usually has to be some sort of mute. the AX8 is doing its best to change hundreds of settings as immediately as possible.

if i absolutely need to change from Clean to Distortion without any gaps, i use a Drive block that just engages/bypasses. otherwise, i stop playing guitar for an 1/8 or 1/16 note, change Scenes or Presets just before i need it, then play.
 
Thanks folks. I have not ventured as far as ever using the X/Y switch function. I assumed the X/Y was mostly for effect models which might have been equipped with dual footswitches, but I guess there is more to it than that. I am out of my depth on the X/Y feature......I am now gathering that the X/Y can be used to switch between completely divergent amp models? That could be very helpful.
 
It's often possible to merge two presets into one, and use scenes to select between them. As long as they share many of the other blocks, the gap can be minimized.

Amp 'X/Y' has been improved in the AX8, and the use of a stereo Cab, if two IRs are needed, and some panning in the Amp block (X and Y), or any other low-CPU block placed after the Amp block, can also help.

Any Reverb and/or Delay trails can be configured to seamlessly carry over between scene changes, which also helps mask any Amp 'X/Y' gaps.

@Paultergeist and @Gary Small ....Post, or message me the two presets, and I can see what's possible.
 
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Moke, it is very kind of you to offer to help. I am still in the early stages of the learning curve; I suggest that I should probably try to experiment with my AX8 a bit more before I engage more of your time directly. The big "teachable moment" for me today was being made aware that using the X/Y switching -- to toggle between amp models -- was a practical thing to do......now I have to try it.

Thanks again for the kind offer. I'll reach out if I get really stuck on this.
 
Paultergeist said:
Thanks folks. I have not ventured as far as ever using the X/Y switch function. I assumed the X/Y was mostly for effect models which might have been equipped with dual footswitches, but I guess there is more to it than that. I am out of my depth on the X/Y feature......I am now gathering that the X/Y can be used to switch between completely divergent amp models? That could be very helpful.
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XY just is 2 different settings available for any block that has XY available. they are independent (except they share Modifiers). so Amp X can be a Fender and Amp Y can be a Marshall. each with their own completely different settings. and you just use one at a time.

watch this video, start at 19:56:

 
Paultergeist said:
Thanks folks. I have not ventured as far as ever using the X/Y switch function. I assumed the X/Y was mostly for effect models which might have been equipped with dual footswitches, but I guess there is more to it than that. I am out of my depth on the X/Y feature......I am now gathering that the X/Y can be used to switch between completely divergent amp models? That could be very helpful.
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I use X/Y switching on nearly all of my presets. Amp X is generally the clean amp like the Band Commander, and Y would be something heavy like one of the Friedman models. I've found that using that with the combination of scenes to turn on/off different fx works very well for what I do (cover band stuff) and I can go from clean to big leads with no real noise in switching that is noticeable to me or anyone else.

Mess around with it - I'm sure you'll find a solution that works for you as you get more and more familiar with it and rock! And Moke's offer to help is generous - he's a master at this thing. I've purchased a few of his presets and they're great.

Good luck!
 
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