Newbie looking for some guidance on chug tones

C

Car130

New Member
So I just got my axe III a few days ago and I originally was loving all the versatility but the more I messed with it the less impressed I was. I feel like every amp and cab is completely dull and sounds like it’s inside a fish bowl. The only one I somewhat like is the FAS modern ii and only sounds good WITHOUT a cab and even at that it sounds super fizzy which I like but to an extent. If I put on a cab it sounds completely muddy and dull and when I turn up the treble and presence it sounds bad too. What am I doing wrong lol. Don’t roast me I need real advice cuz I really wanna like this thing 😂😂

ps I mainly play a lot of chug metal “djent” stuff
 
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Car130 said:
Headphones directly out of the front or my jbl monitor speakers. And I usually have the output 1 set to about noon
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What headphones?

Have you tried multiple guitars/cables?

Do you have anything else connected like FC or any external pedals?
 
What cabs have you tried so far? Have you been using factory presets? Or building your own?

IMO, cabs / IRs have an even bigger impact on tone than the amp model - when I first got my Axe-Fx 3 I had a similar reaction as you, until I realized it was actually the IRs that I didn't like. A lot of it is personal taste, but I've found that I really, really dislike most of the IRs that the factory presets use, and I really, really dislike most of the legacy cabs for the same reasons you mentioned. But, some folks swear by them, so YMMV.

My advice is to find IRs you like first - Leon Todd has a great video for some good approaches for finding your favorite IRs:

Other folks have mentioned stuff to do with your signal chain, but I highly doubt that's what you're running into - this sounds like a cab selection issue to me.
 
Car130 said:
So I just got my axe III a few days ago and I originally was loving all the versatility but the more I messed with it the less impressed I was. I feel like every amp and cab is completely dull and sounds like it’s inside a fish bowl. The only one I somewhat like is the FAS modern ii and only sounds good WITHOUT a cab and even at that it sounds super fizzy which I like but to an extent. If I put on a cab it sounds completely muddy and dull and when I turn up the treble and presence it sounds bad too. What am I doing wrong lol. Don’t roast me I need real advice cuz I really wanna like this thing 😂😂

ps I mainly play a lot of chug metal “djent” stuff
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sounds like you're going for a tone that isn't "usual" or at least have a preference for it.

if only one amp type without a cab sounds the best to you, something may be wrong with your setup. the factory presets should sound "good" in general.

can you show us a video of any song that has a tone you like? can you describe what you don't like about any factory presets or amps with cab sims?
 
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You have to consider that it's going to sound like a mic output on a guitar cab not an amp in the room. This is good because you hear what the audience will hear on a record or live where cabs are always mic'd up. Creating the sound of an amp being in the room requires an actual amp... in the room. This is probably the biggest adjustments people have to make.

The monitoring situation can be a bottleneck but it's probably not your issue assuming you have decent headphones and monitors. It's possible you have a global setting messed up. I'd watch some Leon Todd on youtube and build some presets along with him.

This is older and based on the AX8 but I think most of the concepts are still relevant. He has tons of new videos but this one is ever relevant.
 
The fishbowl comments tells me it's your IR selection.
Picking out IR's is a pain in the ass because it takes forever and then once you find a good one, eventually you stumble across one that's just a little better and end up chasing your tail.

I went through the same thing you are when I got mine, lasted about a week. Once I found a few IR's that I dug, I was good to go. You can buy whatever IR cab you like, chances are, you'll find that 975 out of a 100 aren't what you're looking for with 20 that sound pretty good and 5 that are perfect. I get the idea the companies that are making them (this isn't an insult, just an observation) just go by set areas they place the mics and take the IR's in those locations, whether or not those spots sound great or not. I've got 15,000 IR's and probably 13,000 of them sound like they were recorded in a fishbowl. Devin Townsend said something along those lines in that Larry Mitchell interview where he said people will send him an IR pack thinking they're doing him a favor, when in actuality, he spends more time sorting through shitty sounding IR's than getting anything done. He eventually shot his own.

Don't lose hope just yet. Keep digging around in the IR's, you'll find something. Sometimes it's a combination of two cabs to get the full balance.
There's also the fact that metal guitars on all our favorite albums are generally not as big and beefy as one would expect. They're practically white noise with pitches in some cases.
 
Adding on what Rev said, If you have ever mic'd up a cab with earphones for the purpose of recording you'll find that mic placement can change tone far more than any knob does. There's distance from grill, angle, cap/cone/edge and of course all the different mics, speakers, and amp settings that will change while you dial in a good recording tone. A tone meant to be recorded often sounds different than a tone meant to jam live with. For one example when you double track you might end up finding the highs tapered off a bit so you should have made it brighter... Its endless and the problem with IRs is that an inch of difference can make or break the sound depending on your preference but with IRs you don't get a mic to move around, you just get a billion IRs to shuffle through. It's probably the biggest problem with modlers but boy does it work for me better than having a mesa half stack and all the gear required to record it. I'd be doing the same thing except instead of shuffling through IRs I'd be on the floor tweaking mic placement and worrying about things I can't change like room reflections. I was a bit overwhelmed by the default options in the AxeFX. The list of IRs on the wiki is very helpful but I just said screw it and bought some from York Audio. There's lots of affordable packs from many different vendors. I don't know much about building Djent tones but getting to know the right IRs will make or break your sounds.
 
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One of the first things I did with my Axe (and my FM3 actually) was load up s-preshigh, which is an IR from the Catharsis set of IRs made like, 8-10 years ago. It's one of my favorite IRs for metal, and makes most amps sound huge.

pair it with the Euro Red and crank the high end, it also works well with the USA IIC++
 
unix-guy said:
What headphones?

Have you tried multiple guitars/cables?

Do you have anything else connected like FC or any external pedals?
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I tried passive and active pickup guitars both seem the same and the headphones I use aren’t great but when I record with my other amps they sound great so I’m confused. Maybe the axe just isn’t made for chug styl
unix-guy said:
What headphones?

Have you tried multiple guitars/cables?

Do you have anything else connected like FC or any external pedals?
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tascam headphones. Not great but my other amps sound great thru them and yes I’ve tried passive and active pickup guitars. All of them sound dull
 
What setup(s) are you coming from? You mentioned using headphones with your other amps, so just curious what those are to get a feel for what you are going for or trying to replicate. Like others have mentioned, bands and soundclips that have a vibe you like woupd be helpful also for getting a feel for the types of tones you want. The Axe definitely can do most if not all varieties of chugs, but it'd be helpful to get a lock on what it is you are looking for.

Also, like has been stated now several times, IRs are pretty important. Generally, you are going to get shrill, fizzy tones if you bypass the cab block when monitoring through headphones or any FRFR type system, and those tones will be too harsh to use in most contexts. If you run through a power amp and guitar cabinet however, bypassing the cab block makes sense.
 
Car130 said:
Maybe the axe just isn’t made for chug styl
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Genre innovating bands like Animals as leaders, Meshuggah (2), and Periphery would object to that. Keep playing with it and you will continue to learn to carve out the kind of tones you are seeking.

Edit: Lets add some more metal gods who use AxeFx for fun because I'm bored with the quarentine:
  • Devin Townsend - He talks about how difficult he found the learning curve but he now uses them live and in studio.
  • Metallica - James, Kirk, and Rob are all using Fractal units live.
  • Intervals - People need to understand that you are supposed to use the gear in the modelers just like you'd use the actual gear.
 
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Yep, as already said, IR selection is a Huge piece of the puzzle. If it’s dull and lifeless your trying to cure, then I highly recommend checking out some of the ML Soundlab IRs. There’s some of those included in the factory cabs to get you started. They’re superb!
 
I like the beefy but still fizzy tones like in hourglass by motionless in white but when I go for that tone I either get way too much highs or way too dull I can’t find that middle balance for some reason
 
The Raven said:
What setup(s) are you coming from? You mentioned using headphones with your other amps, so just curious what those are to get a feel for what you are going for or trying to replicate. Like others have mentioned, bands and soundclips that have a vibe you like woupd be helpful also for getting a feel for the types of tones you want. The Axe definitely can do most if not all varieties of chugs, but it'd be helpful to get a lock on what it is you are looking for.

Also, like has been stated now several times, IRs are pretty important. Generally, you are going to get shrill, fizzy tones if you bypass the cab block when monitoring through headphones or any FRFR type system, and those tones will be too harsh to use in most contexts. If you run through a power amp and guitar cabinet however, bypassing the cab block makes sense.
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You’re gonna laugh but my favorite metal tone is my line 6 spider iv amp n I hate that it comes from that but it’s the truth 😂 I can make a video comparing the two and show you. And my other rig which is my second favorite metal tones is my bugera 333 and Mesa 2x12 w v30’s
 
Car130 said:
You’re gonna laugh but my favorite metal tone is my line 6 spider iv amp n I hate that it comes from that but it’s the truth 😂 I can make a video comparing the two and show you. And my other rig which is my second favorite metal tones is my bugera 333 and Mesa 2x12 w v30’s
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I imagine you’d have the same struggle with the real amps then. The amps you’ve mentioned don’t really have the “higher quality” amp tone and fullness of typical amps. Maybe cut a lot of low end in the cab block low cut as a starting point.
 
Car130 said:
I tried passive and active pickup guitars both seem the same and the headphones I use aren’t great but when I record with my other amps they sound great so I’m confused. Maybe the axe just isn’t made for chug styl

tascam headphones. Not great but my other amps sound great thru them and yes I’ve tried passive and active pickup guitars. All of them sound dull
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Axe not made for chug style?? Have you ever seen the artists that use it??
 
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