New User - on the fence if the FM9 is for me

[homerayvaughan]

Brief history...I bought an FM3 a year ago. My intent was to use for recording (that never happened) so I sold it and stuck with amps. I got on the FM9 list for kicks. A year passes and I get the email to purchase. Well, by this time I have one band I'm playing with and another on the horizon, so I took the plunge thinking it would be my live solution. That said, I've never stuck it out with modelers, more out of fear (laziness?) of spending a lot of time researching, programming, learning to use etc...when I could be using that time actually playing (like NOW lol).

So, I have had the FM 9 since December and I've only played with presets. I'm plugging into my Quilter Tone Block 202 on FRFR setting. Cab modeling off. I set the input and the basic stuff per a Leon Todd video. The issue I have is all the distortion patches are fizzy, which is making me rethink using this. I'm not sure what to adjust to make it sound better. There's also a gate or something that when a note is decaying, it sounds digital and glitchy. The amp is set flat, everything at noon, limiter off. I've also had to power it off and back on when a footswitch seems to not want to work, not very reassuring.

There is a definite learning curve. I know it can sound great, but I don't know where to start. I've watched videos and it's really not helping. Paying for the course seems like it could be a good idea, or it'll leave me thinking that I need to sell it. If something happens mid gig, I don't know what I'd do. I debated getting an FRFR speaker of some kind, but again, if I don't keep the FM9, I don't need the speaker.

I like the idea of an all in one solution with so many options and amps to pick from, but I think I may be an amp and pedal guy. I'm a little older than some (57).

Thoughts? Advice?

 

[JoKeR III]

You don't mention the cab you're using. Try turning the Cab modeling on and see if you get better results. I personally have had little success with power amp and cab setups. The only way I've used the FM3 live without going direct is running it into the front of an amp, Brunetti Pleximan, into a 2X12 cab loaded with WGS Retro 30 and ET65 speakers or Carvin 4X12 cab.

Going direct is the only way I get the results I need live. At home I use Focal Alpha 65 monitors and am completely satisfied with the results there as well. After years of tube amps and pedals, swearing never to go back to digital, Fractal has turned me into a convert, going fully digital about 5 years ago. There's no going back for me.

As far as the time setting up presets, there is some initial time needed to get amps dialed in the way you want them to sound. Once you get the handful of amps you want dialed in though, it's really no different than dialing in an analog rig for each gig. The rabbit hole is as deep as you want it to go. Plenty of great factory presets that give you amp and IR combinations that work right off the bat. The factory IRs offer a lot of options if you want to tweak the tone a bit more.

A lot of players mention the 'simplicity' of an analog rig, but I've found I'm playing more with the Axe III/FM3 since I'm not having to tweak or readjust pedal an amp settings when they get moved or maintaining my amps. I have also not had any (knock on wood) issues with any Fractal device in the past 8 years using them live.

Using an analog rig, I've had tubes blow, speakers fail, mics get knocked over or misplaced and pedals quit working. Give me the piece of mind of Fractal over the fear of any of that happening any day. BTW, we're the same age and I thought I was an amp and pedal guy too. Give Fractal a fair shake and I would be extremely surprised if you don't fall in love with the FM9 as well.

 

[elvis]

If you're not willing to dive in and spend the kind of time learning the FM9 that you would have had to spend learning an analog amp, speaker cab, and effects, then there is no point to using it. You'll need to turn the knobs.

 

[OrganicZed]

One thing that might cure the fizz is a low pass filter set to 7500 Hz or so.

 

[homerayvaughan]

If you're not willing to dive in and spend the kind of time learning the FM9 that you would have had to spend learning an analog amp, speaker cab, and effects, then there is no point to using it. You'll need to turn the knobs.

that’s the point; my amps have a hand full of knobs and takes seconds to adjust. These units have so many parameters just for adjusting the amp, but then there are way more factors involved trying to get a good sound. My post may be fruitless, just yelling into the clouds.
If my amp or pedals need adjustment I bend over and turn a knob. It seems not as intuitive as I would like I guess.

 

[homerayvaughan]

You don't mention the cab you're using. Try turning the Cab modeling on and see if you get better results. I personally have had little success with power amp and cab setups. The only way I've used the FM3 live without going direct is running it into the front of an amp, Brunetti Pleximan, into a 2X12 cab loaded with WGS Retro 30 and ET65 speakers or Carvin 4X12 cab.

Going direct is the only way I get the results I need live. At home I use Focal Alpha 65 monitors and am completely satisfied with the results there as well. After years of tube amps and pedals, swearing never to go back to digital, Fractal has turned me into a convert, going fully digital about 5 years ago. There's no going back for me.

As far as the time setting up presets, there is some initial time needed to get amps dialed in the way you want them to sound. Once you get the handful of amps you want dialed in though, it's really no different than dialing in an analog rig for each gig. The rabbit hole is as deep as you want it to go. Plenty of great factory presets that give you amp and IR combinations that work right off the bat. The factory IRs offer a lot of options if you want to tweak the tone a bit more.

A lot of players mention the 'simplicity' of an analog rig, but I've found I'm playing more with the Axe III/FM3 since I'm not having to tweak or readjust pedal an amp settings when they get moved or maintaining my amps. I have also not had any (knock on wood) issues with any Fractal device in the past 8 years using them live.

Using an analog rig, I've had tubes blow, speakers fail, mics get knocked over or misplaced and pedals quit working. Give me the piece of mind of Fractal over the fear of any of that happening any day. BTW, we're the same age and I thought I was an amp and pedal guy too. Give Fractal a fair shake and I would be extremely surprised if you don't fall in love with the FM9 as well.

Yes what you’re saying makes sense and all of the reasons I have an FM9. But I’m just overwhelmed by it right now.
The cab is a closed back hot rod deluxe with an clone of an EV12l that sounds great with my amps.

 

[zedeloc]

You really don't have to go past the authentic tab. The only advanced parameters that I adjust regularly are basically ”speaker impedance” and ”gain enhancer.”

I second OrganicZed's suggestion of a low pass filter to reduce fizziness

 

[BobBrault]

Brief history...I bought an FM3 a year ago. My intent was to use for recording (that never happened) so I sold it and stuck with amps. I got on the FM9 list for kicks. A year passes and I get the email to purchase. Well, by this time I have one band I'm playing with and another on the horizon, so I took the plunge thinking it would be my live solution. That said, I've never stuck it out with modelers, more out of fear (laziness?) of spending a lot of time researching, programming, learning to use etc...when I could be using that time actually playing (like NOW lol).

So, I have had the FM 9 since December and I've only played with presets. I'm plugging into my Quilter Tone Block 202 on FRFR setting. Cab modeling off. I set the input and the basic stuff per a Leon Todd video. The issue I have is all the distortion patches are fizzy, which is making me rethink using this. I'm not sure what to adjust to make it sound better. There's also a gate or something that when a note is decaying, it sounds digital and glitchy. The amp is set flat, everything at noon, limiter off. I've also had to power it off and back on when a footswitch seems to not want to work, not very reassuring.

There is a definite learning curve. I know it can sound great, but I don't know where to start. I've watched videos and it's really not helping. Paying for the course seems like it could be a good idea, or it'll leave me thinking that I need to sell it. If something happens mid gig, I don't know what I'd do. I debated getting an FRFR speaker of some kind, but again, if I don't keep the FM9, I don't need the speaker.

I like the idea of an all in one solution with so many options and amps to pick from, but I think I may be an amp and pedal guy. I'm a little older than some (57).

Thoughts? Advice?

I'm 66. So, age has nothing to do with it. I've been using the Fractal gear for a few years. I've had many tube amps over the years and a massive pedal board....switched the board for an FX8. Evolved to AX8, then FM3, then FM9 and now the Turbo version. I get the tones I want. Choosing the right IR and a good FRFR will make all the difference. Some tweaking too at gig level, of course. I would never go back to tube amps for live gigs. Because age does have a lot to do with hauling gear around!

 

[boyedav]

One of the things I had to learn is that it doesn't need to be any more complicated than a conventional setup. You pick the (modelled) pedals, amp, and cabinet/IR that sound good together. If you find yourself going beyond the familiar controls, then there's a good chance that maybe you don't have the right combination of pedal/amp/cabinet...just like with a conventional amp.

I also had to come to terms with understanding that FRFR or going direct is going to be the sound of a mic'd cab, which of course is going to sound/feel different than when we're in the room with a live cabinet. 95% of the time, my Fractal gear is going into a solid state power amp, then into a traditional guitar cab. For me, that's the easiest way to dial in a base tone. Then when I switch to direct or FRFR, I just slap a cab/IR on my preset. Sure, there's still a learning curve, but the flexibility is worth it. And it sounds amazing.

 

[dehguitar]

I got the FM-9 for my 60th birthday a week ago. I haven't had any problems or issues getting a great sound out of it as soon as I turned it on. I do play around with it a lot, but that is how you learn. I built my first preset from scratch last night.

My first caveat to that is that I use it through headphones. It may be easier to get good tone out of them than a speaker. Secondly, I have a TC Electronic G-System that I have been playing with for years - and it takes some tweaking. The bottom line is don't worry about all the tweaking options, you can always start simple.

 

[homerayvaughan]

I'm 66. So, age has nothing to do with it. I've been using the Fractal gear for a few years. I've had many tube amps over the years and a massive pedal board....switched the board for an FX8. Evolved to AX8, then FM3, then FM9 and now the Turbo version. I get the tones I want. Choosing the right IR and a good FRFR will make all the difference. Some tweaking too at gig level, of course. I would never go back to tube amps for live gigs. Because age does have a lot to do with hauling gear around!

Ok maybe not age, but I’ve never liked programming. Also a new FRFR means I need to get more gear in order to figure out if I can handle this. I’m all for less gear.

 

[Cam Heiliger]

Learning how to dial in a bunch of different styles of virtual amps vs dialing in your amp that you are already familiar with is going to require a learning curve, but it doesn't have to be a big one. It depends on how picky you are with your sound. Your pedalboard and amps may be intuitive to you, but they also have many potential failure points (cables, power supplies, tubes, etc) that an all-in-one unit like the FM9 solves. The transition will take effort, but most of us would agree that it is worthwhile if you can push yourself through the process. That said, if you are not willing to put in the effort to learn the editor and the layout - basically how to use the unit - then you are better off sticking with what you know.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I'm plugging into my Quilter Tone Block 202 on FRFR setting. Cab modeling off.

P. 4 in Quilter's manual says:

The "Pro Tip" is especially important as it 'splains what is happening.

See Section 4 in the manual, especially p. 30. You're using the modeler into a solid-state "flat" amplifier into a standard guitar cabinet. Cab modeling should be OFF, or don't add a Cab block, because the speaker is not FRFR. Power-Amp modeling needs to be ON in the modeler because the Quilter is not applying any EQ to the signal, nor is it emulating a tube power-amp when it is in "FRFR" mode. The power amp in a tube amplifier is important for controlling the overall tone of the amp…

P. 11 in the manual says:

And, Cliff said…

"MV is the most important Amp block control for tone. You have to find the sweet spot. Start at 3 and increase until desired compression is reached. Stock presets are set to sweet spots, subjectively (based on the guitar used and personal opinion). Do not use MV for volume and don't turn it up too much (unless it's a non-MV amp). If an amp has Input Drive and Overdrive controls, use Input Drive for tone shaping and Overdrive as a flat gain control."

"As you increase the MV you drive the virtual power amp harder. As you drive the virtual power amp harder the frequency response becomes more dynamic, just like the real amp. And, just like a real amp, there is a sweet spot where the compression, dynamic frequency response, distortion, etc. just feel "right". The particular settings for the sweet spot depend on the Input Drive, tone controls, etc. so there are no hard-and-fast rules. So, as always, use your ears. And don't be afraid to use your ears. You'll be a better player when you learn how the controls interact and how to find the sweet spot. The great players in guitar history new how to work their amps. They didn't rely on someone else to tell them where to set the knobs, they learned themselves." [106]

Experiment with raising the Master Volume control in the Amp block if the amp model you're using has a master because it can make a major difference in the sound of the amp.

All that said though, experiment with those settings and see what sounds good to you, as you are the one who needs to be satisfied.

I highly recommend you read "Amp Block" in the Wiki a couple times because it explains the interactions between the pre-amp and power amp for both tubes and models.

The cab is a closed back hot rod deluxe with an clone of an EV12l that sounds great with my amps.

If the speaker is a true clone of the EV speaker, then it has a more extended range compared to other guitar speakers so it'll be brighter sounding normally. That's not a bad thing per se, but you have to be aware of it.

Modelers are designed to work with FRFR speaker systems. I use one or two EV floor monitors which are FRFR, and the sound nicely reflects the sound of a mic'd speaker cab, either in a studio or on stage, which is what the modeler is supposed to emulate. Fractal provides many controls to make it possible to work with different systems though, and Section 4 in the manual covers a good selection. Treat it as a cookbook, mix and match as is necessary, and the system should work correctly for you.

You don't say if you've made changes to the global EQ or added additional EQ to your preset, or what volume you're using when listening which can make a huge difference, and haven't shared the preset or specified which factory preset you're using. When debugging these sort of problems, it's important we have insight into your settings and the preset and your monitoring volume level. Working from a known good starting spot is important so I'd recommend these steps:

1. Run a full backup of the modeler. This will preserve your current system settings.
2. Reset the system settings to the factory values.
3. Confirm the settings on the Quilter and use the modeler's global setting to disable cab modeling.
4. Turn up the volume to a stage volume, approximately 95-100 dB.
5. Work your way through the factory presets. Fractal EQs the presets to sound their best at stage volume. When you find presets you like copy them to a new slot for later experimenting.
6. If you want, restore the system settings from the "system+gb+fc" backup file.

These things are a shift in our thinking but they're really no harder to use than a regular guitar amplifier, the basic controls are there and they work the same. Cooper Carter's Masterclass is a great resource, as are the manuals, as is the Wiki, as are Leon Todd's and Cooper's Youtube videos….

I'm a little older than some (57).

I could easily have been your babysitter.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Your pedalboard and amps may be intuitive to you

And imagine how many years of experimenting it took and how many manuals were read to figure them out in any depth.

, but they also have many potential failure points (cables, power supplies, tubes, etc) that an all-in-one unit like the FM9 solves.

Most definitely. And the modeler is SO much more flexible; We can have 512 different pedal boards and switch between them in less than a second.

 

[Deadpool_25]

What would be your live solution if it's not the FM9? Real amp and cab? What real amps/cabs do you have?

 

[Deadpool_25]

We can have 512 different pedal boards and switch between them in less than a second.

Yup. And even that is vastly under-representing it. Insanely flexible/versatile/powerful.

 

[Deadpool_25]

These units have so many parameters just for adjusting the amp, but then there are way more factors involved trying to get a good sound

I have not found this to be true. Run the FM9 into a power amp (can be your real amp's FX loop) and into a cab, select an amp block and use just the authentic controls and you can get great sounds. I've found it to be just as great as playing a real amp through the same cab. Just because more controls exist, that doesn't mean you need them to get a great sound.

If my amp or pedals need adjustment I bend over and turn a knob. It seems not as intuitive as I would like I guess.

You can do this using the perform pages, but I'll grant that it doesn't feel quite the same.

 

[Assumer]

It’s worth the effort. I’m lazy too. I just took my time learning a little as I went while playing my tube amp and occasionally the FM9. Now the FM9 gets most of the use and sounds great. Keep going at your own pace.

 

[Habuman]

Here is a clip from a month or so back. To FOH with a feed into ISP Stealth Ultra amp and onstage cab 2x12. Both amp and cab modeling are on.

As mentioned above maybe you have cab modeling off. Have you tried the Quilter without the FRFR setting?

This is the @York Audio Gift of Tone preset.

 

[Sixstring]

There is a definite learning curve.

My amps have a hand full of knobs and takes seconds to adjust.

But I’m just overwhelmed by it right now.

I’ve never liked programming.

I'm not trying to talk you out of the FM but you seem to be doing a pretty good job on your own . Sorry man but you can make as many excuses as you want. Until you surrender, make a commitment and set aside the time to learn how to use it, it won't happen.