New User: Midi Question - Live Logic Controller

[SilverSurfer]

Dear all

i am a new user of the FM3. I come from the kemper stage.... Maybe i will do the 1000thands comparison post
but given that i plan to upgrade my fm3 rig i guess you can anticipate the result...

So far i am quite happy, I have played 6 shows with just the 3 buttons and an exp pedal and i realized, that
i need some more direct access to functions of the unit. I added an external pedal as a stand in switch.
I already own a Black star live logic Controller


I plan to do the following and i am not sure if this is possible and would need your help:

Stand in switch:

• Stand in switch 1 tap: tap tempo
• Stand in switch 1 hold: Tuner
• Stand in switch 2 tap: (global??) volume boost
• stand in switch 2 hold: pp#1 (per preset function, usually the amp block boost)

Midi via Blackstar live logic:
- 1 to 4 different presets (clean to crunch to solo per bank)
-> Multiple tap of button 1 should cycle through the scene of a preset or call a different preset if possible for different flavors of the same sound just like you can do with the fm3 buttons on the unit. however coming from another preset/switch i always need scene 1 for example to be called.
-> Can i also use the hold function on a midi device or is this fm3/stand in switch only?
- bank up bank down:
-> Can i also use a hold function here??

Are the Bank Function in the FM3 and the Banks in the midi Controller related? Do i have to use them in a particular way?

I would really like you opinions on this idea, how to do it better. Help how to set this up if it is possible etc..

Thank you in advance

 

[unix-guy]

Most of your questions depend on the Blackstar functions, not the Fractal.

FM / FC banks are not controllable via midi as they are only "banks" in that context and not midi banks.

Preset Change will be a midi PC.

Scene Changes will be a midi CC indicating(CC# + Data value). I think there's also assignable CCs for scene Increment and Decrement.

Hold functions are dependent on the midi controller. I've never used one that could do that and I've used some very powerful and flexible controllers.

 

[Paul Bradshaw]

for that level of flexibility with midi I'd suggest looking at something from morningstar engineering (mc6 /mc8) you can program hold / tap/on release etc.., but it's a different sort of price range

as far as i know the live logic is either midi PC commands (switch preset) or midi CC commands(change scenes / effects on/off)
it doesn't have hold functions

i would personally look at using scenes within a preset for different tones as opposed to presets, but it's totally up to you

 

[KSAVER]

Dear all

i am a new user of the FM3. I come from the kemper stage.... Maybe i will do the 1000thands comparison post
but given that i plan to upgrade my fm3 rig i guess you can anticipate the result...

So far i am quite happy, I have played 6 shows with just the 3 buttons and an exp pedal and i realized, that
i need some more direct access to functions of the unit. I added an external pedal as a stand in switch.
I already own a Black star live logic Controller


I plan to do the following and i am not sure if this is possible and would need your help:

Stand in switch:

• Stand in switch 1 tap: tap tempo
• Stand in switch 1 hold: Tuner
• Stand in switch 2 tap: (global??) volume boost
• stand in switch 2 hold: pp#1 (per preset function, usually the amp block boost)

Midi via Blackstar live logic:
- 1 to 4 different presets (clean to crunch to solo per bank)
-> Multiple tap of button 1 should cycle through the scene of a preset or call a different preset if possible for different flavors of the same sound just like you can do with the fm3 buttons on the unit. however coming from another preset/switch i always need scene 1 for example to be called.
-> Can i also use the hold function on a midi device or is this fm3/stand in switch only?
- bank up bank down:
-> Can i also use a hold function here??

Are the Bank Function in the FM3 and the Banks in the midi Controller related? Do i have to use them in a particular way?

I would really like you opinions on this idea, how to do it better. Help how to set this up if it is possible etc..

Thank you in advance

Hi, i would highly recommend you taking a look at this:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ustom-layouts-for-2-button-footswitch.206487/

Doogz developed a very clever layout switching solution for the 3 buttons and 2 stand in switches, i`ve adapted it to my needs and have complete control with a very small footprint.
If you need more stand in switches it`s also possible to get a disaster area midi baby to connect your EXP pedal via Midi and free up 2 additional switches...
And, scenes&channels are your friends

Alex

 

[DC11GTR]

I bought a Voes MX-9 and a Blackstar at the same time last year and upgraded the Blackstar to Voes MX-5 a couple of months ago. The Blackstar not having the LEDs stay lit was enough for me to want to replace it. It wasn’t a bad unit but the Voes MX-5 I replaced it with is miles better because of the LED indication alone.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Hi, i would highly recommend you taking a look at this:


Doogz developed a very clever layout switching solution for the 3 buttons and 2 stand in switches, i`ve adapted it to my needs and have complete control with a very small footprint.
If you need more stand in switches it`s also possible to get a disaster area midi baby to connect your EXP pedal via Midi and free up 2 additional switches...
And, scenes&channels are your friends

Alex

Hi

To be honest, i already used a slight modification of this setup for the last gig. I know that it can work, but to be honest i would rather have a setup
that is simpler and more like what i am used to. We toy around on stage and i just need direct access to certain things. That is how i always did it.
The setup above is just to slow for a hectic situation for my little brain

i read on the forum, that i can use PC mapping on a preset level. Can this be used, to achive what i want?
First press on a switch of the midi controller selects a preset and additional press cycle ( decrease or increase) through the sences?
I would get by if i can only select two different scenes with this technique as well.

Thank you in advance.

 

[SilverSurfer]

I bought a Voes MX-9 and a Blackstar at the same time last year and upgraded the Blackstar to Voes MX-5 a couple of months ago. The Blackstar not having the LEDs stay lit was enough for me to want to replace it. It wasn’t a bad unit but the Voes MX-5 I replaced it with is miles better because of the LED indication alone.

Thanks for your reply... i really would like to avoid to buy additional gear and make use of what i have.
The more stuff i need to buy the more sense it makes to just buy the fm9.

Out of interest why did fractal abandon the AX8 setup? I quit like the layout ?

Anyway thanks for your replies!!

 

[unix-guy]

Hi

To be honest, i already used a slight modification of this setup for the last gig. I know that it can work, but to be honest i would rather have a setup
that is simpler and more like what i am used to. We toy around on stage and i just need direct access to certain things. That is how i always did it.
The setup above is just to slow for a hectic situation for my little brain

i read on the forum, that i can use PC mapping on a preset level. Can this be used, to achive what i want?
First press on a switch of the midi controller selects a preset and additional press cycle ( decrease or increase) through the sences?
I would get by if i can only select two different scenes with this technique as well.

Thank you in advance.

No - unless there is some special feature on the controller. Repeated pressing of the same switch won't send different functions.

You can use PC Mapping to select scenes via PC instead of CC but it's limiting and you'd need to use additional switches for each scene.

 

[DC11GTR]

Thanks for your reply... i really would like to avoid to buy additional gear and make use of what i have.
The more stuff i need to buy the more sense it makes to just buy the fm9.

Out of interest why did fractal abandon the AX8 setup? I quit like the layout ?

Anyway thanks for your replies!!

Understood. On the other side of that though, the reason I put together what I did was to keep the FM3 off the floor in a safe place. I don’t play live anymore but I played enough shows 20 years ago that the fear of stage divers stomping and kicking and flying liquids was a factor in the assembly of my setup lol

 

[Paul Bradshaw]

you can use the Live Logic controller to send CC (to change scenes or turn effects on/off) i think it can also do what you're after (scene increment +1 etc..)

the only issue is that as far as i know when you send CC on the controller, the lights go on and then off with each press, so if you use different buttons, the lights will stay on and not go off when you say select another scene

whether that bothers you or not is another matter, i was hoping they'd offer firmware that can maybe offer different functionality of the midi CC/ lights but i don't think that's the case

 

[SilverSurfer]

Dear all,

Thank you for your replies so far.

Just to clarify, if the live logic could send PC and CC simultaneously, could achieve what i want? I.e. register the cc value to a scene increase functionality?
Or am i completely missing something here?

The way i see it is to could add an additional 2 button Switch , which i do not want as i genuinely feel the exp pedal works better here than via midi

I read a little bit about the Ignore redundant PC functionality. I think this was initially meant to avoid preset reload, which is not such a big deal after gapless switching was introduced i guess.

Can i somehow use this feature in combination with pc mapping per preset. I.e. i use the pc mapping to cycle between 3 scenes with each successive hit of the button when the redundant PC is ignored? OR would i always switch back to scene 1 of the Preset associated witth the PC message?

I have 6 buttons on the unit. 2 Would be used for bank up down.
Would it (as an alternative ) be possible to sacrifice one of the leftover 4 midi switch ( i would still have 3 PC buttons) to be used as a scene switcher via CC?

I would not really care about any lights beeing lid or not.

 

[Paul Bradshaw]

Dear all,

Thank you for your replies so far.

Just to clarify, if the live logic could send PC and CC simultaneously, could achieve what i want? I.e. register the cc value to a scene increase functionality?
Or am i completely missing something here?

I don't think the Live logic can send PC and CC at the same time through one footswitch button press, i might be mistaken

you can however set one button to either send a midi PC command or a midi CC command

a PC command would change preset on your FM3 , and the CC command can be set to change scene/scene increment/effect on /off , whatever you like

The way i see it is to could add an additional 2 button Switch , which i do not want as i genuinely feel the exp pedal works better here than via midi

I read a little bit about the Ignore redundant PC functionality. I think this was initially meant to avoid preset reload, which is not such a big deal after gapless switching was introduced i guess.

Can i somehow use this feature in combination with pc mapping per preset. I.e. i use the pc mapping to cycle between 3 scenes with each successive hit of the button when the redundant PC is ignored? OR would i always switch back to scene 1 of the Preset associated witth the PC message?

from what i've understood when you switch to another preset it will default to the Scene that the preset was saved with (e.g if you save a preset with scene 2 it will start with scene 2)

I have 6 buttons on the unit. 2 Would be used for bank up down.
Would it (as an alternative ) be possible to sacrifice one of the leftover 4 midi switch ( i would still have 3 PC buttons) to be used as a scene switcher via CC?

I would not really care about any lights beeing lid or not.

in 'custom mode' you can use all 6 footswitches to be whatever you want , at least that's what i read
with that in mind you can set them up as you like

e.g
switches 1-4 as preset selection with midi PC
switches 5-6 as scene + and scene - using Midi CC commands

freeing up the three switches up on the FM3 for whatever you like
and/or add an extra footswitch to the EXP for say 2 extra buttons