New IEM's, either rubbish, faulty or it's me, I can't tell...

M

malenko

Member
Hey,

Just bought a new pair of Inear Stage Diver SD-3 IEM's, InEar Monitoring - Universelles InEar-Monitoring - StageDiver-Serie. They are only for use in my studio which is an overkill I know but being only able to play when the little one is in bed means headphones are a must. I do have a pair off Sennheiser HD650's which are excellent but after 20 minutes, my head gets extremely sweaty cause of the very comfy furry muffs, so I thought I'd try a pair of IEM's.
I chose the Stage diver's because all of the review's I could find said how amazing they were and how they beat the competition hand's down. Thing is I can't tell whether they're faulty, just crap or that it's just me and my inability to distinguish quality. I got the triple driver version which reports to have extremely good bass but to me they sound thin with absolutely no feel to the bottom end. You can hear the bass almost crystal clear but there is certainly no feeling to it. I've a/b them with a cheap pair of skullcandy's I use for work which I know I shouldn't because they are no where near like reference quality but the skullcandy's feel in the bass range is way better, it's like you can almost feel it in your body with them. When listening to fully produced tracks with a LOT of bass, the SD-3's have nothing to offer and are almost uninspiring. When playing guitar through the Axe FX, they feel like 0 bass on my regular high gain preset and I have to turn up the bass levels in a graphic EQ to get any sort of feeling. I've tried them with foam tips too, as with my skullcandy's, the foam tips seem to create a lot more bottom end than the silicone variety but the SD-3's don't sound any different with them.
The SD-3's also seem far too much `in your face', for me. The `soundstage' is amazing but after 5 minutes I struggle to want to listen and and want to pull them out. As I said I have a cheap pair for work which I can wear some day's for up to 6 hours straight and not be bothered so it's not a case off not being used to wear in ear stuff. After a/b ing with my Sennheiser's too, I realise they too don't show a lot off bottom end unless you turn them up, but at least you can listen to them where as the SD-3's are too much in your face to want to listen.
They are exceptionally loud too which is a good thing I suppose but I have to turn everything down by over half and if I forget, it really bloody hurts!

So are the Stage diver's supposed to be like this? I know they are really intended for live use and reference but again from the review's I've read where they have listened to produced tracks, the comments where exceptional and that listening to previous known tunes through them was bringing out qualities of the track not heard before.
Or are they faulty? The SD-3's are supposed to have great bottom end because of the two bass drivers but to me the there is nothing there. And if they are correct then I dread to think how bad the the twin and single driver versions are.
Or more than likely is it me? This is actually how they are and I wouldn't recognise quality if it smacked me in the face, which is what I feel like when using them.

Really appreciate people's input as I cant decide whether to send them back for replacement, a different brand or to simply give them back as they ain't right for me and I should stick with over ears :)

Cheers and thanks for listening
 
Ensuring the correct fit and seal is essential with in-ears - bass presence is the first thing to go otherwise. Did they come with various tip / bud sizes / shapes..?
 
I did forget to mention that the fit and seal on them were good. Even though they are a large generic fit, they do fit great and are pretty comfortable.
They only come with three airs of silicone tips, all same shape just different sizes.
As I said I tried the foam one's of my skullcandy's which fitted really well but no difference in sound at all.
I appreciate you can buy replacement 3 party tips, but I'm not willing to fork out yet and them as they are quite pricey for what they are and probably won't be able to return them should they not improve the sound.
They are so far from sounding great that I can't imagine new tips making any improvement on the sound either?

Cheers
 
Hummm... odd then
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I got a pair of Aurisonic ASG-2 last year after some initial dabbles with 'consumer' buds (Sennheiser CX 275s) and they were definitely a huge step up. Not so much in terms of sound or volume - the 275s already sounded pretty good - but the ASG-2s just have so much clarity and 'power'. I don't mean that they're far 'louder', it's more that they just deliver a strong, clear sound under load without crapping out or getting mushy

However, as good as they are, if I don't get the fit right, they don't sound good at all. It's such an important part... although you do indeed seem to be well aware of that and have done some experimentation, so at this point, I'm a little baffled as to why they're so far off of what you're expecting / what they promise to be
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Recently I was working with our new guitarist on IEMs and he got the UM30's, he said they didn't sound very good and were really thin. I suggested they weren't in far enough and seated properly so he gave them an extra push and all of the sudden they were great. If you aren't accustomed to IEMs this is actually pretty common, IEMs are a lot different than the little bud's like skull candy's in they way the frequency response is and the fit. I'd suggest giving them an additional push, also make sure they are seated like the manuals show, if all else fails, call the company who made them or sold them to you and ask them to help. The symptoms don't sound like bad IEMs, they sound like a bad seal/fit.

HTH
Kevin
 
I shall maybe try them again tonight, definitely more over the weekend. Not so sure I could get them in any further since the body of them is so big it is not actually possible but I shall try again.

Cheers
 
everyone keeps saying "good fit" but not explaining what that means.

it doesn't only mean it literally fits in your ear. there has to be a seal made - absolutely no gaps or air between your ear and the monitor. that seal is what preserves the bass tone.

it's not necessarily about sticking them further in, but making sure the actual tip isn't bending into itself, or foam is actually fully expanding. i can get a great seal with my IEMs only in just a bit. sometimes pushing them too far in makes the rubber fold a bit and a gap is created.

put your fingers in your ears. do it! then talk. you can tell when your ear is fully plugged because you can't ear any highs from your voice, only the sound "in your head." you get the same feeling with IEMs properly seated.

i'm a bit reluctant to get custom molded IEMs because i feel with the "universal" grey rubber tips etc, i can always assure that it is covering up my ear completely since it's round. with custom molds, i feel like if it starts to creep out of my ear as i sing, the seal instantly goes away since it's the same exact shape as my ear canal.

i'm using shure 425's right now - DANG you need to boost the highs and lows to make it sound "normal," these guys are FLAT. but i tried, believe it or not, the consumer Ultimate Ears for $399 at the apple store haha, and they sounded MUCH much better. obviously the quad driver helps. but i didn't like the cables that came with them. i tried replacing them with my shure cable and it worked! so i might just get those again with shure cables and tips.

in fact. i think i WILL do that. they really sounded phenomenal.
 
Thanks for the explanation on a good seal, Chris. I'm certainly going to try harder when I get chance to play with them over the weekend although I am sure Im getting a good fit as I've been wearing cheap ones at work for years also cause of my job Ive become acustomed to putting the sponge ear defenders in.
I don't like the idea of eq'ing to make them sound good though cause as you know that is a bad idea for creating tones and recording. It is a quick fix but for the money I paid for them I shouldnt have to, exspecially when my very cheap ones sound better.
 
malenko said:
I don't like the idea of eq'ing to make them sound good though cause as you know that is a bad idea for creating tones and recording.
Click to expand...

not necessarily. my in-ears are so flat, to make my axe sound good, for example, i boosted the highs and lows. then when i put it on speakers that weren't so flat, the highs and lows were too much.

i think the whole "flat" thing is another misconception. you want flat speakers/monitors so it doesn't color the tone. but from there, you need to take another step - eq that flat speaker so it sounds good! which may mean boost lows and highs, shape mids, etc.

so now i saved an eq for my 425's on my x32 rack. when i use them, i turn on that EQ. suddenly my axe has too much bass and treble, i eq the axe and then it fits better with other hyped speakers.
 
Comparing the HD-650's with IEM are literally night and day. One highlights of the 650's are the awesome bass reproduction of the open ear design. I've never been able to get close to that range even with a properly seated multiple driver IEM.
 
Just spent the last hour with and have got a little sonewhere.
I managed to get an even better fit by opening my mouth wide when inserting and pushing them down towards my bottom jaw while pushing them in. I realised they came with four different sized tips and after repeatedly trying them all, i found the second size up from small seemed to fit and sound best oddly enough as I usually go for the larger size.
After playing various styles of tunes with spotify on my iphone and set on the extreme quality playback setting, I finally get a descent sound by eq'ing the crap out of them. Boosting the bass and highs while pullling back the mids. I still cant achieve that real deep bass that im expecting though. I get it close but then if i go any higher it distorts.
So they are extremely flat phones but I'm still convinced that perhaps the low drivers arent working encorrectly. Even when i turn the bass up as high as i can, i cant even feel any physical rumble on the phones themselves.
If they truly are correct then like i said i dread to think what the single and twin versions are like since these are marketed for their extreme bass.
 
malenko said:
Even when i turn the bass up as high as i can, i cant even feel any physical rumble on the phones themselves.
Click to expand...

hmm... i'm not sure that you should feel rumble... i think i know what you mean. i'll try with my 425's later and see what happens when i go crazy with the bass.

keep in mind - bass waves/frequencies can be measured in FEET! this thing is millimeters away from your ears....
 
Yup I get no rumble, just a deeper bass, then it starts distorting. I mean, these things are right next to my ear drums there's no room for bass frequencies to rumble!
 
Perhaps my perception off how a bass is produced is wrong but when you get that deep low bass, that is when it will start rumbling. Those low frequencies are what can vibrate stuff and pushes air around more. If you put your hand on a loud speaker casing, you will feel the bass well before the mids or highs. And to produce that deep bass feel, that rumble to me is what can make it great when you feel it in your bones.
Now i now the difficulties faced when trying to acheive this through iem's but even with cheap pairs I have felt that, even the thwack of a kick drum at times.
But like I said maybe my perception of it is wrong, and a good quality iem will not produce that rumble which would make the ones I have great plus cause they are so flat.
Trouble is I dont like it and think that if you listen to a professionally produced track, with good quality phones you should hear it how it was meant to be heard and not by eq'ing the hell out of it to make it sound good when you know it already does sound good.
Hope you get my drift, and thanks a lot Chris for taking time out to investigate and help me with this :encouragement:
 
Had a bit of time to try them out a bit better today and things have improved big time. After getting them seated more correctly it has helped a LOT. I know everybody said about it but I am surprised about how easy it is not to have them seated correctly even when you think you have.
Playing through the AXE is great now and pre produced tracks sound better. I'm still not convinced they're the greatest for either but, and this is a BIG but, I decided to have a blast of some dance music I produced a few years ago which I ain't heard for a while and played the tracks straight from the DAW and WOW!!! These things came alive! My tracks never sounded so good and even though I wrote them I was even hearing good things I had not heard before.
The bass was amazing, on some tracks with really deep sub bass, it was perfect. Crystal clear, zero distortion and gave me that rumble feel. These things are so good I would be happy to mix with them and so much that it's making me want to get back into my dance production just after a few hours off listening!
It seems my perception off bass in a good IEM was way off, and yes they don't even make any kind off vibration when I get that rumble feeling. Oddly after listening to one track through them, I replayed the same track through my HD 650's and the Stagediver's beat them hands down, I am gobsmacked out how good theses thing's sound.
But so far have only impressed me with my own dance tunes so will have to try them further to see if I'm liking better with the AXE, and I really hope they do.
 
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