New G3 amp modeling VS KPA FW 3

Clive

Experienced
When the new G3 amp modeling technology and KPA FW 3 will be released, it would be cool if someone who owns the two units did a review comparing them.
I just got an XL but no KPA and no one around me has one.
 
I think a comparison would be very interesting, but it won't really tell me a lot at the same time. I am very impressed with the Kemper, but I chose the Axe-Fx because I needed something closer to the real thing that I could tweak with realistic results; whereas the Kemper gives you a really good snapshot of the sound but it doesn't allow for the same tweaking that the Axe-Fx does. I see the Kemper as a 'plug and play' device (and it's probably one of the best), but the Axe-Fx can match it if you know how to tweak it.

I like knowing that the tone controls of my Axe-Fx are doing the exact same thing as the real amp would - it's a comfort zone thing.
 
I like knowing that the tone controls of my Axe-Fx are doing the exact same thing as the real amp would - it's a comfort zone thing.

I agree too.

I demoed a Kemper extensively and was very, very impressed with it, but I found that if you started tweaking a profile extensively, it would start to sound funny. This then meant you had to hunt for profiles that were near perfect as they were and make only small adjustments for guitar/pickup differences.
The non-flexible effects also put me off, but I probably could make them work if I had to; there was certainly enough there to make do.

The Axe Fx was better in this regard in that you had the full model that you could accurately tweak; not to mention the fully flexible effects routing.

There are rumors though that the new FW for Kemper may have some sort of way to capture the tone stack of the amp, so the knobs correspond more accurately than they do now, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Either way, it's not going to change anything for me.
 
AxeII & KPA owner here. Have both, love both, but keeping the AxeFx.

Like said above, I thought the KPA was a great plug & play machine, but it's only as good as the profiles you load it with (some amazing, TAF, Lammert, etc., some clearly captured by drunk apes in a flooded basement). I didn't care for the effects or tone shaping/sculpting tools when compared head to head with the Fractal.

I'm more of a tweaker I guess. I like to dig around in the advanced parameters not shape not only the tone, but the feel as well. The FAS is a better fit for me. YMMV.

EDIT: Not that anything I just said pertains to the OP's question... just my general observations.
 
Here's my take on the Kemper vs Axe FX thing....

Now, first off, I don't even see the Kemper as a modeler at all, so comparing them doesn't make much sense to me. That's not a good, or bad thing, the Kemper just doesn't fit the definition of what I believe to be a modeler, so it's like comparing a delay to a drive pedal. They can both affect your tone, but not in any real competitive kind of way. The two concepts are just too different, and could easily be combined into a single rig. Several artists do this now, and even the Axe-FX has both concepts built in.

To me, a modeler is a device where a programmer replicates a software version of another device in a software environment as accurately as possible, where the end goal is to design every aspect, including tone, signal paths, and control behaviors, as close to the original as possible. A modeler can also go above and beyond the realms of physics and alter things that could not normally be changed in the real world equivalent without possible permanent damage to the original device. The weakness in this concept are the skills of the programmer, and the limitations of the technology being used.

For example. If you modeled a painting. The programmer would do his best to make it look exactly like the original painting from every angle, the 3D aspect of every brush stroke would be apparent even from a side view, and if they were going for pure accuracy, even the original artists mistakes would show up. If the Axe-FX was a painting modeler, you might even have deeper editing features that allowed you to alter the types of paints, canvas, colors and brush strokes used to make your own interpretation of the original work.

Now, I see the Kemper as more of a professional "sound camera" with no actual modeling going on. It doesn't actually model the amp, it more or less takes a snapshot of an amps tone at a single point in time with no deep knowledge of the internal workings of the amp. Now you can alter the tone to some extent, but this process is more like trying to use a set of general photoshop tools than actually reproducing the tone path of the amp. The real end goal with the Kemper is to get the best snapshot of the original without the need for any kind of tweaking. The weakness in this concept, is that you either have to have an army of amps, and tools, and skills required to capture what you want, or rely on someone in the community to have a similar ear, and the skills to capture the tone you want correctly, the first time.

For example. Back to the painting analogy. If you used the Kemper idea, as long as you, or the original person that captured the "snapshot" did a good job, the painting would look very real from one vantage point, but if you looked at it from another angle, the whole illusion MIGHT fall apart. You could run the work through a few different filters to alter some aspects, but on the whole the end goal is really to get the best shot of the original as possible without the need to alter settings. How good the final product is, though depends on a great many things.

Let me make it clear, I do not think either one is a better idea than the other. They both have their place. Like I said before, even the Axe-FX has this "snapshot" concept build in, because it's a great tool. If you have an army of amps that you want to clone, then you'd PROBABLY benefit more from the Kemper. However, if you don't own any amps, or you only have maybe one, or two you'd like to clone, then The Axe-FX might be more your thing.

Personally, I'm a very happy Axe-FXer, and I don't see any good reason to change. It already does more than what I want/need it to do, and it does those things very well, and to my amazement, it somehow keeps on getting even better. But I'm not everyone, so if you prefer the Kemper idea, then more power to ya. It's your gear, buy what makes you happy.
 
The problem with a comparison on products like these as it depends more on users ability to use/program the gear more than any other factor and sadly the guy reviewing almost always has more experience with one over the other and it always shows to me.

I've learned over the years that the only real way to compare stuff is in person, because what it always comes down to is how you are going to use it and if it works for you.
 
AxeII & KPA owner here. Have both, love both, but keeping the AxeFx.

Like said above, I thought the KPA was a great plug & play machine, but it's only as good as the profiles you load it with (some amazing, TAF, Lammert, etc., some clearly captured by drunk apes in a flooded basement). I didn't care for the effects or tone shaping/sculpting tools when compared head to head with the Fractal.

I'm more of a tweaker I guess. I like to dig around in the advanced parameters not shape not only the tone, but the feel as well. The FAS is a better fit for me. YMMV.

EDIT: Not that anything I just said pertains to the OP's question... just my general observations.

I also have both. Are you getting rid of your Kemper?
 
Yes, I've had a lot of interest in it on TGP, but I think I'll end up selling to my neighbor. He's very interested and offered visitation rights :)
 
:encouragement:

I have been thinking about selling my Kemper, but I'll give it a wee bit more time first.

Hmmmm, I have been wanting a Music Man Axis for quite a while.
 
I've seen demo's of the kemper so I can't comment on the real live sound. I have to assume the profiles sound good (great?) because respected players use it just like the Axe Fx. and I've heard nice recordings done with it just like the Axe Fx.
Where things start to change is the price for what you actually get. With all the fx routing, physical cable routing, fx options, superior hardware and processing power I just don't see kemper as a $2,000+ machine compared to the Axe. The price is based on hype - Cliff made a new model Axe the justify additional cost. kemper raised prices simply because of hype. and everyone that owns kemper states you have to buy additional profiles to get a good sound out of it. With the Axe you may need to tweak but no additional $$ is required unless you want to buy ir's.
I've been using processors since the 80's and I can see how someone coming from an amp rig would feel less intimidated by the more simple kemper.
If the kemper was $1000 to $1400 I would own one but profiling alone isn't worth $2000+ it's far to limited for that amount IMHO.
 
I think it's apples / oranges comparison too.

Both are capable of incredible tones.

The Fractal has more sophisticated routing and more sophisticated efx. And to my ears an edge in the analog signal path quality.

The Kemper has an allure since new amps can be added by 3rd parties. So Kemper does not need to acquire the amps themselves. Some very special amps can be offered up to the end-users.

For both products it boils down to the amps themselves. The amp collection that is being used as the basis for the tones.

FAS has some killer amps as seen in the FW releases :)
 
I'm getting pretty tired of hearing about KPA on this forum. :lol

I get that you're joking, but it's a legitimate piece of kit. It wasn't exactly for me, and I suspect it wasn't for most all of the members here, but we are in the lounge after all.
I am getting tired of hearing about EBMMs. They're probably my least favorite popular guitar (and I've tried several BFRs). That doesn't preclude others from thinking they're the best guitars ever made.
 
I'm getting pretty tired of hearing about KPA on this forum. :lol

Heh heh heh! I'm very happy and satisfied with the Axe (so don't take me wrong), but it's nice to know what else is going on with other worthy similar products (albeit there only seems to be one). :encouragement:
 
I think it's apples / oranges comparison too.

Both are capable of incredible tones.

The Fractal has more sophisticated routing and more sophisticated efx. And to my ears an edge in the analog signal path quality.

The Kemper has an allure since new amps can be added by 3rd parties. So Kemper does not need to acquire the amps themselves. Some very special amps can be offered up to the end-users.

For both products it boils down to the amps themselves. The amp collection that is being used as the basis for the tones.

FAS has some killer amps as seen in the FW releases :)

Agreed! My buddy brought his KPA over a month or so ago and we plugged into my CLR bouncing back and forth similar riffs on both rigs. I was on 17.2 or 3 then, I had my Orville LP and he used a PRS Brent Mason. We dialed a similar amp on both systems and the differences in tone were not night/day. That's how close they really are. And the end of the day he was happy with his purchase and I am happy with mine. He learned some things about the Axe that he was unaware of and I learned some things about the KPA as well. I even borrowed his KPA for a week and tonematched several of the profiles.. and I can tell you first hand that at the end of the day, it is just gear. I would be happy with either rig. Both should get you any tone you want/desire. Maybe someday I will own both!

And if you can't get a usable tone out of either of these units, maybe you need to go back to a real amp or just need to play/practice more :)

To have a fair comparison, you really need to try-A/B both units in person IMO.
 
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I have both units and since the release of the Michael Britt profiles I find myself using the Kemper all the time. Its not that I dont like the Ax FX2 XL tones, its that I LOVE the profiles Britt creates. The Marshalls are outrageous!
 
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