New Axe-Fx III Sounds Dark/Muddy, Advice?

[Ben.Last]

Running the boost on those Majestys (I have 2 Lukes with the same boost), you're going to be awfully close to that 5 %.

I'm close to 5% with Blazes and PAFs. Running at 6% has still never negatively affected my tone.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

I'm close to 5% with Blazes and PAFs. Running at 6% has still never negatively affected my tone.

Damn! I don't know how that's even possible. I'm running at 9 % with a 12 dB boost from the guitar. Are you perhaps running telephone wires for strings and have the pickups 0.00001 mm from the strings?

 

[kingskot]

Damn! I don't know how that's even possible. I'm running at 9 % with a 12 dB boost from the guitar. Are you perhaps running telephone wires for strings and have the pickups 0.00001 mm from the strings?

Side question, where are these percentages coming from?

 

[bdrepko]

Well, again, I really like the preset sounds in those demos, and I was hoping to get something close to those right out of the box, but maybe they were tweaked and I will just have to do the same.

To be honest, I am hardly ever able to get the tone on a video using the same preset. So many factors go into getting that sound. That doesnt mean that there are not killer sounds in the AXE3. I find that it is best to start with a preset I like and then modify to suit my taste.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Side question, where are these percentages coming from?

Settings, i/o.

 

[Ben.Last]

Damn! I don't know how that's even possible. I'm running at 9 % with a 12 dB boost from the guitar. Are you perhaps running telephone wires for strings and have the pickups 0.00001 mm from the strings?

7 string guitars, regular NYXL strings, pickups set at the general recommendation for pickup heights. I do think I pick on the harder side, but I've never been able to figure out why I have to set such a low level, honestly.

 

[Handyman]

Can you post the preset you're using? This might be as simple as a dark sounding IR - some of the factory IRs are REALLY dark and some are REALLY bright.

 

[catscanman82]

Yamaha HS8s with XLR cables. So I should be good, right, power amp and cab modelling should be on?

When I first got my AXFX 3 I though bigger monitors were better in my small room and tried the Yamaha HS7 but they did not sound good at all. Then I went to Presonus 5 inch monitors and it made a big difference. Down the road I may upgrade to better 5 inch monitors but for now these are good enough. My room is not treated at all but the the smaller front ported monitors made a big difference.

 

[unix-guy]

Side question, where are these percentages coming from?

This comment makes experienced users assume you're talking about Instrument Level in the global I/O menu because that is where the documented reference to "tickling the red" comes from:

make sure the input level is "tickling the read" (although I have to turn up the input level pretty high to get there)

 

[kingskot]

Settings, i/o.

Ok, yikes. I have to turn mine up to 90% to even start pushing the red, and even pushing it all the way to 100% doesn't really overdo it.

 

[kingskot]

This comment makes experienced users assume you're talking about Instrument Level in the global I/O menu because that is where the documented reference to "tickling the red" comes from:

That is indeed what I was referring to. I didn't notice that the "unit" on that knob is a percentage. This percentages these guys are giving are also way below what I need, which is at least 90% (see previous post).

 

[unix-guy]

That is indeed what I was referring to. I didn't notice that the "unit" on that knob is a percentage. This percentages these guys are giving are also way below what I need, which is at least 90% (see previous post).

Mine is at 100%... Set it for your hottest guitar and don't worry about it after that.

I have to play pretty aggressively to get the red LED to flash.

 

[kushdingies]

Ok, yikes. I have to turn mine up to 90% to even start pushing the red, and even pushing it all the way to 100% doesn't really overdo it.

Same here with my Ibanez with PAFs. I think that's just normal with PAFs, they're a very low output pickup, that's fine

 

[Cooper Carter]

The presets in that video are stock factory presets. I have my input level set on default and it never changes, including with the Majesty.

 

[kingskot]

The presets in that video are stock factory presets. I have my input level set on default and it never changes, including with the Majesty.

Thanks for that. They sound so different for me that I'm really wondering if something is set wrong or even if there's a problem with the unit. I've tried my Ibanez Prestige (DiMarzio PAFs), Iceman (DiMarzio D-Activators), and an custom built Carvin 8 string with active pickups, for all of them the highs are just not there. If I bring up the highs with EQ (at any stage I've tried) it sounds more like I'm adding high-frequency noise than actually affecting the tone. I'm kind of at a loss....

 

[unix-guy]

One more thought: what kind of guitar cable? Low capacitance cables will have better high frequency content.

Also, try Input 1 on the rear input and see if that changes anything.

 

[kingskot]

One more thought: what kind of guitar cable? Low capacitance cables will have better high frequency content.

Also, try Input 1 on the rear input and see if that changes anything.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried a few cables, they're all Monster brand instrument cables, shortest one was 6 ft. They seem to work fine with my amp and my other RI. Just tried the input on the back, sounds the same.

 

[Moke]

Geeez.. I have the Instrument Input trim at 5% with my (stock) EBMM Axis and EVH Wolfgang Special. And sill 'tickles the red' pretty easily. I would run it lower, but it starts to affect the input gain of the presets.

 

[JWDubois]

Hey guys, I know that there are other threads on this, but the solutions I've found in them so far haven't worked for me, so I thought I'd try a new one showing exactly what I'm hearing. In a nutshell, all of the presets sound dark/muddy/boxy/lifeless, especially the high gain presets. Here's the stock Brit 800 preset, scene 3, no adjustments. The drive block is turned on about half way through, also all default settings (removed "www" to post):

dropbox.com/s/xnsg2om2efc6lsm/fx3_brit800.mp3?dl=0

It sounds much less alive, has much less "shimmer", as compared to the same preset demo'd here (although it's unclear if the preset was tweaked):

youtube.com/watch?v=h1AcNN_K8xQ

Sounds the same going straight to the monitors, through headphones, and through the USB into my DAW. Here's what I've tried so far:

• replacing cables
• change output from -10 dB to +4 dB
• make sure cabinet and power amp modelling are turned on
• make sure the input level is "tickling the read" (although I have to turn up the input level pretty high to get there)

The above recording was done with an Ibanez prestige with stock DiMarzio PAF pups, which aren't very hot. I also tried an Iceman with DiMarzio D Activator pups, which are much hotter, there's more gain/distortion but the "flatness" issue is the same. In any case, I get much brighter, nicer tones out of my amp, and even using Positive Grid's bias amp, so I don't think the issue can be just the guitar. I also tries the USA IC+ preset (scene 4) to compare with the above YouTube video, it has the same problem.

I've been tweaking EQ, amp setting, cab block settings, etc., and I can get it to sound a bit better, but I'm wondering if there's something wrong here. I'm not much of a gear head, I was hoping to get great stock tones out of the box. Does this sound right to you guys for this preset, is this what you would expect to hear? I don't want to make any enemies here, I see people getting some amazing sounds out of this unit, but I have to say that this preset sounds pretty bad to my ears....

Thanks for any advice you can give!

I had pretty much the same experience with my Axe III, my vintage output and PAF equipped guitars, and my HS8 speakers.

With the PAF guitars (Duncan 59, Alnico II, and Pearly Gates) and Tele (Dimarzio Area T615), I can only "tickle the red" with Pete Towshend swings, even with the input gain set at 95%. I ended up just leaving it at 50%.

The higher gain presets didn't work for me at all, even when I cranked up the input trim in the amp block to compensate for low input. But the clean presets are very nice. This is where I recommend you start. If the clean presets sound clear, sparkling, and hi-fi, which they should, it's not your rig. Some of the clean presets required that I bump up the amp block level to get them working right.

Also, test your Yamahas with high quality recorded music. Make sure they're clear and balanced. Make sure the bass is not booming. I'm sure you're aware of the eq settings on the back for room balance.

To get the higher gain stuff working right took a bit more work. I struggled with darkness and mud for a long time. My keys to fixing this are choosing the right IR and low cuts.

The IR is the biggest factor. You may have luck with the stock IRs but I didn't. My solution was a couple of York and OwnHammer IR packs. The main reason I like them is that they both come with a variety of premixed blends which greatly simplify the process of choosing an IR. Many people like the York IRs because they are very clear in the bass and don't require as much low cut as some others.

Next is learning how to use low cuts. There are dozens of ways and places to apply low cuts in the Axe, too many to get into here. But one setting that has a drastic effect on the low end is the speaker impedance curve on the amp block speaker page. For example, pick a Marshall'ish cab and listen to the difference between the Greenback curve and the 800 curve. That big bass bump on the left can be edited and I find reducing this bump by reducing the resonance amplitude and increasing the Q to be one of the most powerful tools available for getting boomy bass under control.

To increase overall brightness, try adding a filter block after the cab. I like using the tilt filter to both add top end and cut low end at the same time. It doesn't take much and the the ability to edit the tilt frequency is a very powerful setting.

Good luck and stick with it.

Edit: I forgot to mention, the bass seems easier to control with the new V16 FW. There seems to be more clarity in the bass than with V15.

 

[kingskot]

I had pretty much the same experience with my Axe III, my vintage output and PAF equipped guitars, and my HS8 speakers.

With the PAF guitars (Duncan 59, Alnico II, and Pearly Gates) and Tele (Dimarzio Area T615), I can only "tickle the red" with Pete Towshend swings, even with the input gain set at 95%. I ended up just leaving it at 50%.

The higher gain presets didn't work for me at all, even when I cranked up the input trim in the amp block to compensate for low input. But the clean presets are very nice. This is where I recommend you start. If the clean presets sound clear, sparkling, and hi-fi, which they should, it's not your rig. Some of the clean presets required that I bump up the amp block level to get them working right.

Also, test your Yamahas with high quality recorded music. Make sure they're clear and balanced. Make sure the bass is not booming. I'm sure you're aware of the eq settings on the back for room balance.

To get the higher gain stuff working right took a bit more work. I struggled with darkness and mud for a long time. My keys to fixing this are choosing the right IR and low cuts.

The IR is the biggest factor. You may have luck with the stock IRs but I didn't. My solution was a couple of York and OwnHammer IR packs. The main reason I like them is that they both come with a variety of premixed blends which greatly simplify the process of choosing an IR. Many people like the York IRs because they are very clear in the bass and don't require as much low cut as some others.

Next is learning how to use low cuts. There are dozens of ways and places to apply low cuts in the Axe, too many to get into here. But one setting that has a drastic effect on the low end is the speaker impedance curve on the amp block speaker page. For example, pick a Marshall'ish cab and listen to the difference between the Greenback curve and the 800 curve. That big bass bump on the left can be edited and I find reducing this bump by reducing the resonance amplitude and increasing the Q to be one of the most powerful tools available for getting boomy bass under control.

To increase overall brightness, try adding a filter block after the cab. I like using the tilt filter to both add top end and cut low end at the same time. It doesn't take much and the the ability to edit the tilt frequency is a very powerful setting.

Good luck and stick with it.

Edit: I forgot to mention, the bass seems easier to control with the new V16 FW. There seems to be more clarity in the bass than with V15.

Thanks, this is very helpful. I feel certain that it isn’t the Yamaha’s, everything else sounds great through them. I can even get a nice, bright, high gain sound from them with the same guitars and using PG Bias Amp. I was hoping that the FX 3 would give me something even better than Bias Amp, and feel more like an amp. It seems like this is possible, but just a lot more work than I was hoping.

I still don’t understand why the YouTube demo of the unaltered presets sounds so much better (listening through the same Yamaha speakers, btw) than what I’m getting, even with guitars that have very hot passives or active pickups, but it seems like unfortunately there isn’t a good answer to that question.