Neil Young - Rust Never Sleeps

iaresee

iaresee

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The whizzer lives! In the Axe-Fx II!

This patch had been worked on for a few weeks now but I had to wait for the FW 14.00 beta to drop on the general population to unleash it. It was born out of a discussion around Neil's crazy, melt-down Tweed Deluxe tones and how one might achieve them using an Axe-Fx II.

The patch uses the OH_112_DLX_J12-PR_SP UltraRes IR in user slot 009. This IR is available for free with the latest firmware download.

A lot of it comes down to the big V -- volume. You need a lot of it. The more you can use, the better it feedbacks, the more you have to wrestle with the chaos to keep it at bay with this patch. Headphones just don't do it justice here.

The patch is setup with the Scene 1 sound match, by ear, to Cortez The Killer off Live Rust. I matched it using the totally wrong guitar: my '95 PRS Standard. It's a 24 fret, all mahogany guitar that's pretty dark. So bear that in mind before you turn it up loud and get a ice pick in your ear -- my guitars are dark guitars. Got it? Riding the volume on Scene 1, I can play along for far too long with Live Rust. It cleans up right, with my guitar, and screams right when I open it up.

A moment, if you don't mind, to discuss my amp choice: '65 Bassguy! That's right! NOT THE DELUXE! Why? It sounded more right when I was playing along. Remember Neil's Deluxe is heavily modded. Who knows what it's really like under the hood any more? It sure as hell ain't stock. So follow your ears I say! I left an AMP 2 block in the patch with a Deluxe model if you want to A/B. Where I really thought the '65 Bassguy model won out over the Deluxe Tweed is when you roll the volume waaaaaaaay back your guitar. The '65 Bassguy says bright and crisp, with a little edge. The Deluxe Tweed not so much.

The scenes follow the whizzer settings as described here more or less kind of not really at all but you get the idea.

So:

Scene 1: all out, compressed and driven to the edge
Scene 2: backed off a bit, still driven but not as compressed
Scene 3: backed off a bit more
Scene 4: cleaned up quite a bit, not at all like his settings I suspect

And there's:

A reverb tank in front of the chain. An old Dist+ pedal. An octave pedal for the true insanity (try this while solo'ing over Cinnamon Girl and using Scene 2 or 3 instead of 1 -- mmmmmm oh yea!). A tape delay for a little slap back. A filter block in case you want to really tear your head off with a 4 dB boost. And some room reverb so you feel like a god on a stage rockin' in the free world.

Play around with the mix on the REV 2 block out in front of the signal chain. It might be a little high in the mix. I backed it off to about 6% after I uploaded the patch and like it a little better so adjust to taste.

I'm sure you get the idea.

Here's the patch: http://axechange.fractalaudio.com/detail.php?preset=2335

Maybe I'll do a clip this weekend after this week calms down a bit. Until then: Play all the wrong notes but play them LOUD and you'll never go wrong! :)
 
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So...I'm almost afraid to ask? Shite for you guys? Or okay? Anyone improve on it? Post your updates if you did!
 
Whew... Finally had a chance to give this a go...

Pretty good work mate!!



The wife put the baby down for a nap just when I was cranking so I had to record at a soft volume.

As such, I tweaked out the preset scene 1 as follows: added a comp in from of the amp, picked the 1x12 Tweed M160 UR IR (didn't try the OH one yet like you did...), upped CF compression, lowered power tube bias, bumped triode hardness.

My Les Paul doesn't have the chirpy bridge pup like Neil's, so I was tweaking the preset for more chirp!
 

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barhrecords said:
Pretty good work mate!!

Click to expand...

Likewise on this clip! This is crazy good IMO -- both sound and playing. The sustain at the end is particularly excellent -- how can anyone not say the Axe-Fx is THERE when it comes to modelling after hearing that? It's there. So there. Killer good.

As such, I tweaked out the preset scene 1 as follows: added a comp in from of the amp, picked the 1x12 Tweed M160 UR IR (didn't try the OH one yet like you did...), upped CF compression, lowered power tube bias, bumped triode hardness.
Click to expand...
Capital tweaks! I'm going to have to try out that IR.

My Les Paul doesn't have the chirpy bridge pup like Neil's, so I was tweaking the preset for more chirp!
Click to expand...
Yea, one of the reasons I ended up on the Bassman was because it cleaned up more chirpy with my guitar than the Tweed Deluxe model did. So many pieces to the signal chain it's hard to just do exactly what he does and have it work. Sometimes you have to shut your eyes and go by sound alone, not worry too much about the name on the model or the parameter when you're tweaking if it sounds right!
 
Pretty nuts I got that edge of feedback with really pretty low volume too. Very amp like trail at the end of that clip for sure.

I've got my CLR's connected to a monitor controller. That was recorded at about 73-76db SPL in the room lol.

Also the entire signal chain is so simple... no drive pedal! comp -> amp -> cab -> reverb.

I needed the comp playing at low SPL so I could get the sustain. The comp is setup for 4db of gain reduction on the meter and +4db of level so it's not really pushing the amp block. Its for sustain.
 
i think after i made this i bought the cab pack with the tweed deluxe IR's whch added more realism to the tone. this is actually my "go to" tone for everything. i rock it with a Les paul with Searcy custom P90s.. it works lovely.
 
gunforhire said:
Im about to try your patch :) i love his awesome tone, of those tweed tubes on the verge of total destriuction..hahaha
This is the first preset I uploaded. and in fact my only one so far.. its another neil young inspired setup. taken from listening to various lve records and videos and seeing his live setup in action..
Axe-Change - Download Preset - Tweed Deluxe Neil Youngs - by Kiwicano
Click to expand...

Nicely done!

This is scene 2 of your patch... the only change was I used the 1x12 Tweed M160 and the 1x12 Tweed R121 in the Cab block. Really just out of laziness since they were already in my user cabs :)



I wonder if we could get more of that Neil Young chirping going on? Or is that the pickup on the guitar? I'm not super savvy wit the advanced amp parameters to know if we can coax that chirping tone out of the amp block or not.
 
are you using P90s" i get a chirp frpom my hot p90s. but my HB guitars dont have that.. there more rounded and less gnarly if you get my meaning.. the p90s have the attack of the single coils..
 
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whats your guitar setup? I dialed this in with a les paul copy with custom P90s. I tried it on my ferndes vertigo custom with high output humbuckers and the tones not the same . its smoother and has less of that edgeyness . I know neil youngs "blackie" has the P90s running so that has effect at high gain. they are alot more open to extra tones and dirt that adds to the richness... if you could find the most opposite to an EMG81 my P90s would be close..hahahahaha there not buzzy but there gnarly,. when you dig in with drive they break up and chime unlike a standard Humbucker and are way more gainy than my single coils in my jazzmaster.
 
Those clips are a Gibson custom shop historic 60's Les Paul Custom. The pickups are from the Gibson custom shop.

The pups are a little wooly for my tastes. Clogged up in the low mids.

I agree about P90's being a better choice for that tone.

But IIRC Old Black has a Firebird humbucker in the bridge and the original 50's P90 in the neck?

That Firebird pickup is really one of a kind. All his techs have talked about it. It is slightly microphonic and gives that quintessential Neil lead tone.

I was hoping there were some advanced amp block settings that would accentuate the chirp :)
 
In my experience even with EQ'ing it impossible to emulate the Third part of the the tone chain - being the pickup. (first the players hand- second the guitar , i reckon) how the pickup turns that string vibration into an electrical signal effects everything down that chain. The impusles of energy as each string is plucked, hit, strummed. Its more about punch than frequency so trying to EQ or push an amp setting to emulate a certain pickup never works - In my opinion . This is why with my les paul with the P90s My tweed setting just rips but with other guitars and pickups its wooly and loses so much of what i love about it so I have to have a complete other preset for my HUmbuckers etc. As much as I adore the Axefx i just dont think it can emulate a pickup change. its like all those Horrible " acoustic simulators" that never sound anything like an acoustic.. not one.haha they all sound like strangled clean electric guitars on DI's hahaha. But like I said its my opinion and Im always open to learning and changing my views..haha
 
I agree EQ is not going to give that chirp :)

With all the advanced amp parameters these days, it was a long shot, but I was hoping some setting would get more "rattle" out of the preset itself. There are many many settings in there :)

I use transformer match and bias and then EQ for the most part.
 
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