Native Instruments going bankrupt!

[David Houck]

I never knew he left iZotope(!).

He had some interesting things to say.

 

[AtomicJeff]

He had some interesting things to say.

I liked a lot of his iZotope videos but they were really lengthy. I wished some of that content would have been broken down into sections.
And speaking of iZotope, I used to receive marketing emails from them fairly often but I'm realizing I haven't received any in quite a while.

 

[lscottk]

He had some interesting things to say.

That was a really interesting video. I didn't realize all three companies were under the same corporate umbrella. I always found PA and Izotope business practices annoying, if not outright manipulative. Their constant "sales" and murky dysfunctional upgrade paths. I just always felt like they were coming at me like carney barkers. I still bought their stuff, though, so I guess there's that.

 

[vangrieg]

iZotope was indeed annoying in their communications and confusing bundles, but I definitely respect them for boldness - they were one of the few companies that didn’t do “emulations” of hardware but instead did pure digital products. No fake panels or knobs, just controls that made sense the first time you looked at them.

 

[deathbyguitar]

iZotope was indeed annoying in their communications and confusing bundles, but I definitely respect them for boldness - they were one of the few companies that didn’t do “emulations” of hardware but instead did pure digital products. No fake panels or knobs, just controls that made sense the first time you looked at them.

I agree 100%. I appreciate people in the mixing space not trying to blow smoke about vintage compressors and consoles and stuff and just giving you modern tools with modern workflow.

 

[GitGuy513]

This is a good vid from an insider explaining the situation with NI and there very complex business model. I watched it all, but I just saw how long it is. Try and watch as much as possible.

 

[vangrieg]

This is a good vid from an insider explaining the situation with NI and there very complex business model. I watched it all, but I just saw how long it is. Try and watch as much as possible.

Let me guess…

Folks bet on perpetual growth seeing the pandemic musical instrument market explode, so investors came in, they went into an acquisition spree, and of course sales plummeted, nothing materialized, and the investment was leveraged?

 

[Øutsider]

A couple things I've run across I thought I would add to this thread for whatever help they might be.

"Statement from Nick Williams, CEO of Native Instruments"
https://blog.native-instruments.com/statement-from-nick-williams-ceo-of-native-instruments/

"I Worked at iZotope — Here’s My Take on the Native Instruments News" by Geoff Manchester

As soon as I heard "...acquired by a private equity group..." I went, there it is.

Seems like a lot of times when that happens things end up in the crapper.

 

[Stratman68]

I have software from all of the above, and I hope we're able to continue using it. I also have software from other vendors that use NA interfaces. For hardware, I have Maschine Mikro. I purchased a Kontrol S88 Mk3 keyboard controller, which played great, but would not do the initial firmware update. I tried all the suggestions in the help documents on Native Instruments' website and contacted their customer support for assistance, and they were very helpful; but nothing we tried worked. I sent it back to Sweetwater and got a Studiologic SL88 Grand, which I really like.

I would be lost without Kontakt 8 or any.
How does this affect Izotope I wonder? I have been using their plugs forever. purchased Ozone 3 or 4 and never looked back I am current and have been for many years. I know, AI, blah. Well it helps me and as weird as this may sound the graphics were my first attraction.

I don’t know about that, NI hardware is expensive already, and I’m not so thrilled about the software becoming Mac only.

Also don’t think Apple would be interested, they’re good at designing and marketing mass manufactured products they sell in uncountable millions. MIDI keyboards are a totally different game, and with all the uncertainty in the market it sounds a bit insane to spend time and resources on such a thing.

That would suck imho if it was MAc only.............

 

[Stratman68]

but I definitely respect them for boldness - they were one of the few companies that didn’t do “emulations” of hardware but instead did pure digital products. No fake panels or knobs, just controls that made sense the first time you looked at them.

I agree 100%...........

 

[David Houck]

This is a good vid from an insider explaining the situation with NI and there very complex business model. I watched it all, but I just saw how long it is. Try and watch as much as possible.

Just finished watching the first part where he explains the complexity of the Kontakt system re history, developers, customers, etc. It was helpful to watch him diagram all the relationships; not that I'm any less confused than I was before.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

I hope akai buys them, may as well since they're using some of their stuff in their MPC's etc.

 

[GitGuy513]

Just finished watching the first part where he explains the complexity of the Kontakt system re history, developers, customers, etc. It was helpful to watch him diagram all the relationships; not that I'm any less confused than I was before.

That was what I liked. Yes it still left a person wondering. It did give a little hope that hopefully the developers won’t let the whole thing die. There seems like there’s too much interest by the “customer”. Also as compulsive as expecting the pandemic bubble would last forever, it seems just as compulsive to think things will not pick up again. At least normalize and $$€€ will start to flow again.

 

[vangrieg]

It did give a little hope that hopefully the developers won’t let the whole thing die.

Developers don’t decide themselves what to work on.

And whatever this insolvency means under German law, it’s an indication that a company has trouble paying its bills (and more importantly debt).

And there are only two ways to resolve this. You either find revenue you didn’t see before (highly unlikely), or you cut costs and sell assets. Developers are a cost.

 

[Dave Merrill]

By the time it hits vc ownership, the people with passion aren't in charge of the overall ship any more, the money people are.

Hopefully they can see that there's a big iceberg of developers and users out there, many of whom are either passionate about the company's wares, locked in for various reasons, or both, and can figure out how to get to a profitable arrangement of some kind.

I've got a sizeable collection of NI and PA stuff, I'd hate for that to just evaporate over time, as OS and other incompatible updates arrive.

 

[GitGuy513]

Developers don’t decide themselves what to work on.

And whatever this insolvency means under German law, it’s an indication that a company has trouble paying its bills (and more importantly debt).

And there are only two ways to resolve this. You either find revenue you didn’t see before (highly unlikely), or you cut costs and sell assets. Developers are a cost.

I was thinking that NI dissolves and something very small forms from the ashes. Furthermore if those that actually produce the product(s) that actually have worth (Developers) can show some entity it’s worth the capital to acquire what’s left (even if it’s one part of the pie). Of course all the legal BS and debts, etc. would have to be resolved. Getting rid of developers would be short sited and lead to the same mess in a couple years. Nobody wants to buy a product from a company that is just limping along and has nothing new to offer.

Also based on your definition “insolvency” means the same thing where I’m from. The business model sucks and needs cleaning. Personally I would start with the higher paid management. I suppose it all depends on how bad the amount of damage. Which I have no clue.

I only ever had use for the “player” part of Kontakt. I’m not a big plugin guy no matter who is making it. So I own a few products from those other businesses who developed products for the player. That’s what I care about and what I considered developers. That’s what I would want to see stay alive.

 

[GitGuy513]

My the time it hits vc ownership, the people with passion aren't in charge of the overall ship any more, the money people are.

Hopefully they can see that there's a big iceberg of developers and users out there, many of whom are either passionate about the company's wares, locked in for various reasons, or both, and can figure out how to get to a profitable arrangement of some kind.

I've got a sizeable collection of NI and PA stuff, I'd hate for that to just evaporate over time, as OS and other incompatible updates arrive.

I was writing my post as you posted. Any similarities with your post was purely incidental or that we think similar in some circumstances.

 

[vangrieg]

Getting rid of developers would be short sited and lead to the same mess in a couple years.

Well again I don't know anything about German law but typically debt holders have priority over shareholders, let alone anyone who might potentially buy the company. Which means that before you are allowed to think about the future you need to satisfy banks first. And they will want anything that doesn't serve the purpose of letting cash flow in their direction immediately and in the nearest future get out of the way.

Of course a software company cannot exist without developers but the question is what they do. They can keep the lights on with a bare minimum of people, or they can work on new products or improvements of existing ones. Also, if you cut the number of products, you'll need fewer developers.

We'll see. We can be reasonably sure that no reliable information will become public for a while. Whatever the company executives may say now will be PR approved messaging which doesn't mean much. And there will be no other sources apart from speculation.

 

[pauly]

Damn. I love Izotope products!

Native Insrruments is going bankrupt. Here are some additional details:

https://musictech.com/news/industry/native-instruments-preliminary-insolvency/

https://www.gearnews.com/native-instruments-insolvency/

https://audioplugin.deals/blog/nati...-worried/?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=email

It seems like the music industry is slowing. Local used guitar, amp and equipment sales are floundering.

 

[vangrieg]

Damn. I love Izotope products!

I think about it this way (not knowing anything about actual financials, of course):

If I were to streamline NI’s business (and I actually did this kind of stuff for a living, believe it or not ), I’d have to look at what’s core and what is non-essential.

In my view, the core is a set of products that can’t actually live without each other, and that’s the hardware controllers and essential NKS enabled plugins that allow those controllers to actually produce sounds - so Kontakt and most things in the Komplete bundles plus Maschine need to stay. The keyboards themselves won’t sell at the current premium prices without NKS, and nobody except NI can drive this whole thing. So hardware must come with at least some software.

The rest should be up for sale, iZotope plugins don’t do anything important for the core business, they are most probably done by separate teams with different skills, and I’m not even sure they’re NKS enabled (although I may be wrong here).

Same for the plugin alliance stuff, although I’m not sure it’s worth much as a business.

So I believe iZotope will continue existing, but likely with a different owner. Just shutting it down without attempting to return some of the investment doesn’t make much sense, only if it’s bleeding cash and there’s no buyer.