My drop tuned guitar doesn't sound great thru Axe II

Stringtheorist

Stringtheorist

Fractal Fanatic
Is there anything I should do to optimise my Axe preset for de-tuned guitars? I have an ESP Eclipse (EMGs) tuned to B standard. It sounds horrible. In comparison to a guitar in standard tuning, it sounds like there is less gain going to the amp block, yet I know this guitar is "hotter" than my others (including my Les Paul). Also, I feel a strange sense of disconnection when playing in droptuning, as if there's some latency there (similar sensation when playing through the Axe's pitch block).

All you guys who play the super heavy detuned stuff, how do you set up your presets for best results? (Clean and distortion)
 
so if you play preset 1 (or whatever) with a standard tuning guitar it sounds fine. when you switch to your ESP with the same preset 1, there's a disconnection/latency? less gain?

if you take your standard tuned guitar that sounds good and just detune the low e string to any lower note, does it suddenly have the same problems as your ESP?
 
What amp models are you using? Are you playing into monitors? cab? active pa?

I mainly play in the neighborhood of C but my baritone is in B. I typically lower the bass, add a little more mid than normal and sometimes add a tube screamer with the drive at 0 but the level tailored to taste. Also back off on the gain a bit in the amp block, it will open it up a bit.

Also, just on the off chance, have you checked your batteries in the EMG's?
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
so if you play preset 1 (or whatever) with a standard tuning guitar it sounds fine. when you switch to your ESP with the same preset 1, there's a disconnection/latency? less gain?

if you take your standard tuned guitar that sounds good and just detune the low e string to any lower note, does it suddenly have the same problems as your ESP?
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I can't do this to the same extent with my other guitars as they have much lighter strings, although I often use drop D without any noticeable issues. Hard to say without restringing and listening again.
 
Nonservium said:
What amp models are you using? Are you playing into monitors? cab? active pa?

I mainly play in the neighborhood of C but my baritone is in B. I typically lower the bass, add a little more mid than normal and sometimes add a tube screamer with the drive at 0 but the level tailored to taste. Also back off on the gain a bit in the amp block, it will open it up a bit.

Also, just on the off chance, have you checked your batteries in the EMG's?
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I haven't checked the batteries but the guitar sounds fine in standard tuning, so I'm assuming it's not this.

If I'm using a metal preset (Thordendahl or Recto) I'll usually need to add extra drive to present the same level of distortion that I would hear in standard. This could be just an issue of perception, though. I'll try the tube screamer idea and see how that sounds. I'm currently going straight to a single Atomic CLR.
 
Try a PEQ going into the amp for low-tuned stuff. Big, wide-Q boost in the 1000 Hz range. Suddenly, the guitar sounds much more clear, and not muddy. With death metal, this is a big help in making the guitar sound like a guitar again, but at a low tuning.
 
claxor said:
Try a PEQ going into the amp for low-tuned stuff. Big, wide-Q boost in the 1000 Hz range. Suddenly, the guitar sounds much more clear, and not muddy. With death metal, this is a big help in making the guitar sound like a guitar again, but at a low tuning.
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Thank you. I will give that a try.
 
I haven't experienced this with my RGD (dropped A) nor my LP Baritone (Dropped G#) nor my buddies LTD Stephen Carpenter (Dropped F#). The latency you're feeling is really strange, I'm not sure where that is coming from, the axefx feels like I'm playing through a real amp with a cab in an iso booth being mic'd up. It definately feels a bit different than being in the room with the amp and cab, but it still feels like a real amp (and great!) :D

I do notice with the lower tunings though that I use less gain and less bass as the heavier strings are moving more anyways so I get the sound I want with less gain and bass.

I've also noticed some REAL amps don't really like to deal with super low tunings, they have trouble retaining clarity when overdriven significantly (even really high end expensive amps), so maybe you're picking models of amps that aren't suited for low tunings in the real world so.
 
dosilegecko said:
I've also noticed some REAL amps don't really like to deal with super low tunings, they have trouble retaining clarity when overdriven significantly (even really high end expensive amps), so maybe you're picking models of amps that aren't suited for low tunings in the real world so.
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This could be true. Which amp models do you use?
 
I use a drop Bb tuning on my baritone and I haven't run into any issues with latency. As far as distortion goes, you've basically in bass guitar range, so you definitely don't need a lot of distortion. The FAS Modern is the go to amp for most of the 7 and 8 string guys, so try that.

The latency thing sounds like too much going on in the patch or a pitch block is engaged. I am super sensitive to latency, but I don't notice it with just a different tuning.
 
Stringtheorist said:
This could be true. Which amp models do you use?
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I just got the Axe FX 2 last week so I'm slowly creeping through the models, but right now my absolute favorite is the 5153 Red. The factory preset for it is a pretty good starting point, just turn off the verb and delay and you have a nice focused metal tone, or at least I did on my RGD :encouragement:

I was trying to mess with the FAS Modern 2 but it was a little fizzy but I'll keep working with it because I know other people have had success so it is operator error. I bet the Dual recto Modern varietes and the Engl models will sound good too.
 
i'd be surprised if it was the Axe...since it's earliest adopters and biggest supporters thus far are from the heavy/metal/djent crowd.
 
ESP Eclipse, the 24.75"-model? Tuned down to B? What strings are you using? :geek
I never ran into issues with my JP12 7 String, and I'm using mainly USA PRE GREEN/YELLOW, TripTik Modern and 5153 Red.
 
After I'm off work I'll send you my preset and that should give you a starting point. Try raising your emgs. They should have way more output than your lp.
 
shadoe said:
After I'm off work I'll send you my preset and that should give you a starting point. Try raising your emgs. They should have way more output than your lp.
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Cheers Shadoe; that would be great. The EMGs are noticeably hotter than my LP's pickups... on my "go to" clean amp (Brit 45) the tone clips in an unpleasant way.

I compared the Recto and Thordendal with the 5153 and Triptik models. No doubt the 5153's voicing sounds stronger but I think that it's because it has a more midrangey sound from default (and more gain). I need a more scooped sound for a particular song, so I'm not sure adding more mids is the answer. Claxor's PEQ block suggestion sounds good but I got a similar result just boosting 1k in the amp's Graphic EQ which suits me better, so I'll see how that translates when I play live.

After playing my Les Paul in B standard I believe my frustration is with the ESP guitar/EMG pickups, and nothing to do with the Axe. There's less dynamic range. Highs on the Les Paul are noticeably more pronounced and the tone is less compressed over all. I don't feel the same sense of detachment with the LP.
 
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Have you just changed the string gauge for the B-Tuning, or have you modified the nut of the Headstock? It seems to me (as a 7-String-User, Ibanez with 648 mm Scale) that this has nothing to do with the Amp Block. If the fat strings don't fit exactly into your guitars nut without enlargening it, the strings may be a little more away from your pickups.

Most guitarrists think that tuning down a standard guitar with fat strings is the whole deal, but there are several things zu think about:

1) What scale (628 mm Gibson Scale, 648 mm Scale) is your guitar? The deeper you go, the longer the scale should be (648 mm works fine for my 7-Strings, and my B-String is tuned to A!!!)
2) Do the Bass Strings fit into the nut? If not, you should widen them with a tool, if you don't have experience, let a professional do the job...
3) The deeper you go, the less defined the distortion will be, just try to decrease gain and add some mids...
4) The "Cut" button in the amp block will help you to get more definition when going down....
 
I use the very same ESP with EMG's. The reason a tube screamer (TS808, or the like) is so widely used in modern down tuned metal, is because of the tone shaping it provides to the guitar signal prior to hitting the amps pre-amp... namely, cutting highs and lows and giving a healthy mid range bump. It 'tightens' the low end and gives the mids some 'juice'... making for a nice chunky, precise and 'chuggable' tone.

Producers like Andy Sneap (and many, many others) have a tube screamer in the signal chain at all times with very few exceptions (if any).

Drive at 0 (or very close to) and Level at unity (at least, that's how I set it). You're not using it to add gain. Modern high gain amps have plenty. It's simply a type of EQ curve you're applying to the guitars signal in order to make it 'friendlier' for the amp.

I'm tuned to C# standard and use 13-56 strings.
 
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