My Dear Double Verb is Dead

[eljodon]

Yes, I was finding the same thing. In order to get the volume up, you have to bring the MV level up to the point where it starts to get dirty, which is not what I want.

I heard your sound clip and of course it's a Strat but I hear a compressor and that sound is not too bright. I have you tried playing with the dynamics controls? To my ears it sounds compressed with fast to med attack and a med release and the threshold set so it sounds natural and not overly squashed. A compressor also wil help out in taming down a overly bright sound depending on how you use it. I'll try to recreate it and send you the file or give you the settings. What pickup are you using? That will be an important part of the puzzle. I use WCR Strat pickups on one of my Strats and EMGs S pickups on my other one.

 

[LVC]

I think it a good tone and I can see why you are chasing it.... but it is not what I would associate with a Fender Twin (especially a vintage Black Face Twin) -- Just so you know I have played twins as far back as I can remember - and when I got the Axe about 8 weeks ago - I immediately went to the Twin and quickly switched out of it and ended up using the "Brownface" for most of the 6 gigs I did during that period of time. The Twin in FW10 is about as real as you can get (IMO) without having to haul a 70 pound amp around and it will be my primary gig amp moving forward.


That being said I think the clip sounds to me like it has more sag and less "spank" than Twins are typically known for. Also the speakers are a little darker so it is missing the "Twin" sparkle on the notes (If I take away what I perceive as a compressor hitting it).

It it was a real vs a virtual Twin and I wanted to get that sound I would be sampling different pre-amp tubes and speakers and also looking for a newer Twin and not one with an almost 50 year old transformer in it. In reality I would actually be looking for a different more modern sounding amp.

Not sure what I would on the Axe -- I am just an old tube guy digging the "tubes" in FW10!

Hey Guys!

Thank you sooooo much for your thoughtful replies, and all of the advice.

So, I think I know what's going on here...it appears as though we have another situation where the underlying tonal characteristics of the amp have changed. I've read all the threads about folks who aren't happy about this amp or that amp that has changed. Users flaming FAS about it. That's not my intention here.

LVC, your sound clip really hit it on the head for me. Your sound clip IS what I'm hearing now and it's WAAAAY different than the old Double Verb. It probably sounds much closer to a REAL Twin, and that's great. But it's DIFFERENT, and not in a good way for me. I appreciate everyone's opinion about what sounds good, it's just not the tone I am after in my clean presets.

Below is an example of the tone I'm looking for, any ideas about what amp I might be able to use now to re-create it would be really, really, really appreciated. Thanks again guys!!



BTW, I recorded this direct via USB, no tweaking...

 

[mrstrat]

I heard your sound clip and of course it's a Strat but I hear a compressor and that sound is not too bright. I have you tried playing with the dynamics controls? To my ears it sounds compressed with fast to med attack and a med release and the threshold set so it sounds natural and not overly squashed. A compressor also wil help out in taming down a overly bright sound depending on how you use it. I'll try to recreate it and send you the file or give you the settings. What pickup are you using? That will be an important part of the puzzle. I use WCR Strat pickups on one of my Strats and EMGs S pickups on my other one.

Ya, there's a compressor running at the beginning of the chain, very light though.

I'm using my Suhr with V60 single coil pickups. This particular tune uses the position 2/5, between the neck and middle pickup. Thanks for the help!

 

[mrstrat]

I think it a good tone and I can see why you are chasing it.... but it is not what I would associate with a Fender Twin (especially a vintage Black Face Twin) -- Just so you know I have played twins as far back as I can remember - and when I got the Axe about 8 weeks ago - I immediately went to the Twin and quickly switched out of it and ended up using the "Brownface" for most of the 6 gigs I did during that period of time. The Twin in FW10 is about as real as you can get (IMO) without having to haul a 70 pound amp around and it will be my primary gig amp moving forward.


That being said I think the clip sounds to me like it has more sag and less "spank" than Twins are typically known for. Also the speakers are a little darker so it is missing the "Twin" sparkle on the notes (If I take away what I perceive as a compressor hitting it).

It it was a real vs a virtual Twin and I wanted to get that sound I would be sampling different pre-amp tubes and speakers and also looking for a newer Twin and not one with an almost 50 year old transformer in it. In reality I would actually be looking for a different more modern sounding amp.

Not sure what I would on the Axe -- I am just an old tube guy digging the "tubes" in FW10!

Hey LVC, I think your analysis is spot on... I think the issue is that this really isn't a classical Twin tone. As a matter of fact it sounds eerily similar to my Two-Rock Custom Reverb tone, lol. Which is probably why I love it so much! :lol

So....maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, so to speak. I thought I had read somewhere that Cliff was going to add a Two-Rock Custom Reverb amp model to V10, but I guess I was mistaken.

Hey Cliff!! How about if you take the V9 Double Verb model and rename it Two-Stone Custom Reverb and release it in V10.1???

Or maybe I'll just Tone Match my Two-Rock and see how close I can get with that.

Many thanks again LVC!

 

[prometh]

I loved the V7 Double Verb, and to get its sound in V10, mostly all I had to do was crank the MID knob to 10; before it was at 5.

 

[mrstrat]

I loved the V7 Double Verb, and to get its sound in V10, mostly all I had to do was crank the MID knob to 10; before it was at 5.

Hmmm...worth a shot!

 

[LVC]

Funny you mentioned Two-rock -- I was actually going to say that it sounded similar to the clean channel of my old Fuchs ODS.

Maybe you might want to experiment with the ODS Clean channel -- those amps have a lot more sag in them -- great tones for sure!


The relationship with Fender and dumble are fairly close. Early Dumble voicings were very much in the fender camp -- without the spank but with increased Sag.

the Skyliner EQ moved the goal post away from the Fender camp just a tad (I think the Dumble in the Fractal has the Skyliner EQ).


so actually you might have been dialing in a Dumble style clean channel all along.

Hey LVC, I think your analysis is spot on... I think the issue is that this really isn't a classical Twin tone. As a matter of fact it sounds eerily similar to my Two-Rock Custom Reverb tone ....

 

[MarkShrader]

Below is an example of the tone I'm looking for, any ideas about what amp I might be able to use now to re-create it would be really, really, really appreciated. Thanks again guys!!



BTW, I recorded this direct via USB, no tweaking...

MrStrat, wondering... is this something you recorded before you upgraded to FW10? If so, have you considered just going back to FW9? I guess I am of the mind that if you love a sound or amp, don't break it. Sometimes the "new" benefits aren't necessary. (Reminds me of how all the guitar greats have these old amps that they always use and religiously protect. Whatever sound brings you into the myth, stick with it! I, as your fan and/or listener, deserve your myth. Right? =)

 

[mrstrat]

Funny you mentioned Two-rock -- I was actually going to say that it sounded similar to the clean channel of my old Fuchs ODS.

Maybe you might want to experiment with the ODS Clean channel -- those amps have a lot more sag in them -- great tones for sure!


The relationship with Fender and dumble are fairly close. Early Dumble voicings were very much in the fender camp -- without the spank but with increased Sag.

the Skyliner EQ moved the goal post away from the Fender camp just a tad (I think the Dumble in the Fractal has the Skyliner EQ).


so actually you might have been dialing in a Dumble style clean channel all along.

Great suggestions...I'll play around in the Dumble pool for a while.

 

[mrstrat]

MrStrat, wondering... is this something you recorded before you upgraded to FW10? If so, have you considered just going back to FW9? I guess I am of the mind that if you love a sound or amp, don't break it. Sometimes the "new" benefits aren't necessary. (Reminds me of how all the guitar greats have these old amps that they always use and religiously protect. Whatever sound brings you into the myth, stick with it! I, as your fan and/or listener, deserve your myth. Right? =)

Hey Mark, you make a good point here. I'm still weighing v9 vs. v10. There is much to like about v10, and I'm not done trying to see if I can replicate that V9 Double Verb tone in V10 somewhere. So, I'll probably continue to move back and forth between them until I can either replicate that tone, or give up all together and go back to V9 for good.

 

[spv]

Agree with this. Played a gig in Johannesburg SA last weekend. Extensively used the double verb alongside an Australian buddy who played through a Fender Twin. It just rocked and the Axe outperformed the Fender. Came home (to Atlanta) and loaded FW10. The Double Verb present has completely lost its body, punch and presence. I have not had a chance to play with the settings yet....any shortcuts appreciated!

 

[LVC]

Agree with this. Played a gig in Johannesburg SA last weekend. Extensively used the double verb alongside an Australian buddy who played through a Fender Twin. It just rocked and the Axe outperformed the Fender. Came home (to Atlanta) and loaded FW10. The Double Verb present has completely lost its body, punch and presence. I have not had a chance to play with the settings yet....any shortcuts appreciated!

I have to tell you I installed FW10 three times before I got the ghosts out of the machine and figured out I should not save with Axe-Edit. I also ended up resetting the machine and redoing all my presets from scratch.

Pretty much every hard core Fender guy that has played my AF2 with the new Fender amps (not just the Twin) have been blown away. They are for all practical purposes -- "real" Fender amps. the folks I am talking about are hard core fender players and vintage amp collectors. In the next few weeks I will hang with my Dumble head friends -- that one should be a real hoot. There is No way No how they will admit that the Dumble in FW10 sounds real or even remotely close to a real dumble. I know hell will freeze over first -- but I also know it will cause them to loose some sleep -- it will be fun!

Besides installation issues, I have also noticed that a lot of folks used the amp models in pre FW10 AFs to sculpt tones that really did not sound like the "real" amp but something based on that amp -- but when you compare that with a the pure tone of the "real" amp -- it is going to sound significantly different.

Regarding A Sample Setting - try the following (It is about as Vintage a BF Twin tone as you can get)

At low volumes I use the following

Drive: 3
Input trim: 1.2
Bass: 3.71
Mid: 6
Treb 5
Bright On

At higher volumes
Bright Off

forgot to add - I am using the default 2x12 mix cab
Reverb - to taste