My 2 Cents: Why Some People think Axe-Fx Doesn't Sound Great

laxu said:
Obviously playing technique matters for how good your playing sounds and it's the thing that makes us all sound unique, but purely for guitar tone I feel the gear does the trick. If we have a nice Marshall type rhythm overdrive setting setup and you plug in an experienced and a beginner guitarist and tell them to play a single powerchord, it's not going to be a case where the beginner sounds massively worse if we evaluate pure guitar tone.
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I think that equipment is just a part of the chain again.

The FAQ in the manual says:
Q: Why all the technical terminology?
A: The language of the FM3 is for the most part the universal language of professional audio. This allows the FM3 to be used by casual and professional players, producers, engineers, and beyond. The terminology and concepts you will use and learn are accordingly not unique to the FM3. Understanding them will help you to master the craft of pro audio and to communicate with others. At the same time, the FM3 is easier than ever, with dedicated controls and a clear interface that doesn’t distract or disrupt the creative flow.
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Notice it doesn’t say “professional guitar playing”, it says “professional audio”. A guitar and the attached pedals and amps are one part of the chain.

For fun, start at the first page of the modeler’s manual and quickly skim through each page and see how many different things there are to know. And then add in actually using and playing the guitar.

Using the modeler well, and getting good sound, is the result of gaining knowledge and experience about each technology that is involved to make the right decisions when connecting and adjusting things. We often hear from new people that they jumped into modelers thinking that their year of owning a beginning amp and playing at home is going to transfer directly to a rig used in a studio, and then find out that the gear isn’t plug and play, and that they didn’t know nearly enough. Then they buy more gear but their lack of experience and knowledge betrays them again and they make bad decisions on what to buy and STILL have to learn how to use it. It’s a frustrating process understandably; It’s one hell of a learning curve.

And then they blame the modeler. :)
 
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I think there is another factor that some people don't take into account:
when going through near field speakers I believe that most people tend to play at a substantially lower volume than with a regular amplifier.
And in this case the acoustic sound of the guitar has a pretty big role in what we hear.

If I play through headphones for a while and then I switch to speakers I often find myself surprised by how much acoustic sound is "mixed in".
 
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musicman0001 said:
And my answer is simple (and yet so complicated) and it's not the axe fx that is "to blame.

When i started modelling I was so happy that finally I had so many amps and effects. I started with the Purple Monster from Digitech which was a hybrid solution (digital and analog) and it had real tubes. FRFR & amp/cab emulation was not really (to me) on par, but trough a cabinet I suddenly had so many sounds to tweak to my needs wich could easily be accessed by a footswitch.

Now years later I have "similar" set up (The III Turbo), but now using FRFR, so I can create sounds more in line with what you hear on the record and what the audience is hearing when listen to a live performance. And as a guitar player used to hearing sounds through a cabinet and not very known in all the things that happen after it leaves the speaker cabinet.

What I learned througout the years reading this forum and my own search I can summarize some of my "black eyes" I encounterted:
  • Cliff is (almost) allways right, and he seems to be very knowledgable on the science of audio
  • Yes there can and will be bugs, all products have challenges to fix or to overcome
  • FRFR is absolutely (!) NOT the same as "amp and cab" and a lot of people keep comparing grapes and raisins (same fruit, but very different)
  • Every person has different taste and expectations
  • The sounds of guitars on most records are NOT the same as you think they are
  • FRFR and recording are very complicated due to soo many factors (your ears, your expectations and brain, the way you have set up your guitar, speakers, IR's, microphones, gainstages)
  • The whole setup you use to create or to recreate the sound (even with the same speakers, tools, etc..) can be dissapointing as others seems to get it right from the start. Again: it's not the axe fx, but it's the whole chain
  • Audio is just very very complex, and the ones that got it right are lucky, have the proper setup or they really understand audio very well
  • Speakers and a threated room or how you place them really do matter (and for me already it starts with how strings are set up!!)
  • It has been mainly me, not understanding it all and too big expections
  • Fletcher–Munson and air-movement at your pants (added as indeed this is very underestimeted subject)
Here are some of my tips and tricks that worked for me and what I figured out the hard way: (this to shorten the first entry)
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Nice summary! It’s not a simple process to use a modeler well and I think it takes a certain attitude towards learning through experience, to teaching ourselves. Some people don’t want to put in the time, get frustrated, and blame the tools. It sounds like you have taught yourself the right things. :)
 
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Having treaded the audiophile world a bit makes me scratch my head a bit, and I understand budget, when I see some cheaper, lighter FRFR solutions. I think it is important if you walk into the FRFR/PA world that you consider you need quality on the speaker side to fully appreciate the work Fractal has accomplished.
 
I did not say i'm not happy with my tone. I said i do not have the full chain to my wishes yet. The first one would be a real room treatment.

I should have said frfr at home, as with this setup i have not played live.

Anyways, it was my intention to help others that struggle with sound as i learned a lot. With both axe fx 2 and axe fx3 i was able to get great sounds.

But now i easily get close to so many sounds without extensive tweaking. Is it 100%, nope not yet mainly because of external things, and not related to axe fx
 
Setting “fingers” aside, as an audio pro with both FOH and studio chops I’d venture that live vs. recording are two very different worlds with two very different needs — reproduction vs. creation. For me, live is almost always about making the artist’s sound/performance choices easily heard by the audience in the context of the entire band in the moment. Conversely, studio work is more often than not about working with the artist to apply (what one referred to as) “studio tomfoolery” to realize the artist’s sound/performance vision. Thankfully (for me, anyway) the AxeFX is a superior tool for accomplishing both — as is most of the gear I use given the choice.
 
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