Most trouble-free solution (tracking-wise) for guitar synth?

Jupiter

Jupiter

Inspired
Hi, I am looking for the most trouble-free/best tracking solution for guitar synth.

I've owned the GK3/GR20 twice in my life, I've dealt with several tracking issues (and glitches, dying mice sounds and the such), spent a lot of time setting the GK3 on four different guitars with different setups. I did some recordings but on one hand it was just a PITA, on the other I came across so many limitations, I had to take a different approach (by recording multiple tracks with less dense playing etc).

Truth to be told, I need a guitar synth system for my recordings (pianos, violins, french horns etc) and if I knew or at least were comforable playing the piano, I would have gone the piano midi controller route and I would be just fine. But that's not the case here.

So, after a few years of not having a synth guitar system, I bought the GK5/GM800 combo. Better tracking than the GK3/GR20 combo for sure, but still far from being trouble-free for me. I installed and tested it with the GK5 installed on 3 different guitars, tried different setups, string gauges etc.

I need something better than this.

At first I searched for non pitch-to-MIDI solutions like Instrument 1. It's not available anywhere in the EU (out of stock) and I doubt I could use it with the GM800. Checked the Ztar, not available, expensive (I found one locally for 700eur) and again I am not sure if I would be able to use it with the GM800.

Then I started looking for solutions like Graphtech Ghost pickups + Hexpander, hoping that this pitch-to-MIDI solution might be better than the hec pickups. Good thing is that they have saddles for narrow spacing guitars (like my Fender MIJ/CIJ Stratocasters).

So, what's your experience?

Any suggestions?


Thanks in advance,

Nick
 
Jupiter said:
Hi, I am looking for the most trouble-free/best tracking solution for guitar synth.

I've owned the GK3/GR20 twice in my life, I've dealt with several tracking issues (and glitches, dying mice sounds and the such), spent a lot of time setting the GK3 on four different guitars with different setups. I did some recordings but on one hand it was just a PITA, on the other I came across so many limitations, I had to take a different approach (by recording multiple tracks with less dense playing etc).

Truth to be told, I need a guitar synth system for my recordings (pianos, violins, french horns etc) and if I knew or at least were comforable playing the piano, I would have gone the piano midi controller route and I would be just fine. But that's not the case here.

So, after a few years of not having a synth guitar system, I bought the GK5/GM800 combo. Better tracking than the GK3/GR20 combo for sure, but still far from being trouble-free for me. I installed and tested it with the GK5 installed on 3 different guitars, tried different setups, string gauges etc.

I need something better than this.

At first I searched for non pitch-to-MIDI solutions like Instrument 1. It's not available anywhere in the EU (out of stock) and I doubt I could use it with the GM800. Checked the Ztar, not available, expensive (I found one locally for 700eur) and again I am not sure if I would be able to use it with the GM800.

Then I started looking for solutions like Graphtech Ghost pickups + Hexpander, hoping that this pitch-to-MIDI solution might be better than the hec pickups. Good thing is that they have saddles for narrow spacing guitars (like my Fender MIJ/CIJ Stratocasters).

So, what's your experience?

Any suggestions?


Thanks in advance,

Nick
Click to expand...
Midi Guitar 3 coming soon.

Posted 3 weeks ago. I've gotta say, this looks great. I've never tried MG2, but I'll buy this as soon as it's released.
 
Do you need to play MIDI in realtime?

I did the GK/GR thing going way back and it was fun but I had to change my playing too much to get around its quirks.

I still want to be able to play synth parts but I don't need live performance capability. So I'm looking at way to track guitar and be able to convert to midi. Melodyne will do this in polyphonic mode but I prefer less 'work'.

I used the RMC pickup system a long time ago that had a Fanout Box that output each string on its own analog out. I thought this would be an easy way to record each string and convert to MIDI later.

RMC no longer makes the Fanout Box so I'm looking for something that does the same thing.
 
NY Guitarist said:
Do you need to play MIDI in realtime?

I did the GK/GR thing going way back and it was fun but I had to change my playing too much to get around its quirks.

I still want to be able to play synth parts but I don't need live performance capability. So I'm looking at way to track guitar and be able to convert to midi. Melodyne will do this in polyphonic mode but I prefer less 'work'.

I used the RMC pickup system a long time ago that had a Fanout Box that output each string on its own analog out. I thought this would be an easy way to record each string and convert to MIDI later.

RMC no longer makes the Fanout Box so I'm looking for something that does the same thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do need to play MIDI in realtime, that's how I record my pianos, violins, brass etc. I know, I am kinda old-school...

I agree, I've been dealing with the hex pup/pitch to Midi thing for way too long...I stopped playing the synth guitars like regular guitars the moment I tried out my first GK3/GR20 cause I was getting more false/ghost notes, funny sounds etc, than the actual things I wanted to play, lol. And that's why, when it comes to synth guitars, I don't really care about neck's dimensions, profile etc. because I don't (can't) play them like my ordinary guitars.

I think I'll keep looking for an Instrument 1, knowing I'll depend on PC/VST software...

Thanks guys!
 
Jupiter said:
Yeah, I do need to play MIDI in realtime, that's how I record my pianos, violins, brass etc. I know, I am kinda old-school...

I agree, I've been dealing with the hex pup/pitch to Midi thing for way too long...I stopped playing the synth guitars like regular guitars the moment I tried out my first GK3/GR20 cause I was getting more false/ghost notes, funny sounds etc, than the actual things I wanted to play, lol. And that's why, when it comes to synth guitars, I don't really care about neck's dimensions, profile etc. because I don't (can't) play them like my ordinary guitars.

I think I'll keep looking for an Instrument 1, knowing I'll depend on PC/VST software...

Thanks guys!
Click to expand...
I've been using the Roland guitar synth products for around 20 or more years.
I've tried just about every pickup on the market. Roland GK's, RMC & Graphtech. I definitely favor the direct piezo pressure driven saddles over the magnetic GK setups. The clean install of a Ghost system is a big plus for me.

I prefer to do as much as possible w/ my MIDI control & I hate flipping switches on my guitar. When I built this one I only put controls for magnetic & piezo volume on my guitar. I use a volume pedal on the floor for the volume over any & all of the synths fed through the FC-12.

This setup works better than any I've tried as far as tracking goes. The Roland guitar synth units that say COSM are hands down the best for tracking. Having said that, they still have occasional mis-triggered notes & some flubs, but they're lightyears from where Pat Metheny started.

I'm using mine for more experi-metal music, so I can get away w/ a lot. Since I've used this technology for a couple decades I know what to expect.
There are certain instruments I stay away from at all cost. Piano being the main one, mainly because of how weird it sounded when bent. I know it can be adjusted to not change notes during bending, but I'd never found some of the standard instruments that useful for my application.

I've always blended the synth into my guitar signal & used it as an accompanying effect.
One way that works great is to have the synth do your delay. So your regular guitar signal is front & center, but the synth is producing a new feature that's being delayed. It sounds amazing, especially when using a violin or cello that ghostly follows your guitar. I stumbled onto this by accident, & it's one of my 'goto' settings.

Unlike some of the instruments on the synths, the sitars & acoustic guitars track incredibly well. I'm also able to blend sitars from the two synths along w/ my piezo. Everything is routed through my AxeFx3 & the tones I'm getting are incredible. Same w/ the acoustic guitar tones. I'm blending from both synth units along w/ my piezo & magnetics & I'm floored w/ the sound I can get to my DAW.

I'm adding parametric EQ blocks to every input that I use in the AxeFx3. This way I can store minute volume adjustments to each preset that I use & everything is always in check as long as I run my guitar volumes on 10. If you take a look at the Axe Edit picture:
IN 1 is guitar magnetic
IN 2 is guitar piezo
IN 3 & 4 are VG-99 & GR-55

I hadn't even heard about the MIDI GUITAR 2 until yesterday when unix-guy mentioned it. I have to say that I'm really looking forward to trying this out whenever the new release drops.

Cheers!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_7258.JPG
    IMG_7258.JPG
    3.3 MB · Views: 21
  • IMG_7259.JPG
    IMG_7259.JPG
    3.4 MB · Views: 20
  • IMG_7278.JPG
    IMG_7278.JPG
    3.6 MB · Views: 17
  • IMG_0998.JPG
    IMG_0998.JPG
    2.2 MB · Views: 16
  • IMG_0997.JPG
    IMG_0997.JPG
    3 MB · Views: 15
  • IMG_7516.JPG
    IMG_7516.JPG
    1.5 MB · Views: 15
  • IMG_0999.JPG
    IMG_0999.JPG
    2.5 MB · Views: 22
Admin M@ said:
Throwback to the original Blue Chip Axon guitar MIDI converter. 25 years later I've never heard a system that tracks better, or even as well. Terratec bought them and re-issued it. Maybe you can find one.
Click to expand...
Matt, thanks. Does your recommendation on that one extend to both live performance and studio "part entry" use?
 
The MIDI Guitar 3 looks promising. I see some UI changes that look interesting. I never got around to dive into MIDI Guitar 2. This may get me to go for it. I just spent a nice chunk of cash on a hardware synth/workstation.(Yamaha M8x) so investing large amounts of $$ on RMC & Graphtech or Roland GK situation is not in the cards right now. Pitch to midi is in the financial ballpark. I never found it hard to adjust to tracking irregularities. I can get the FM3 to cooperate just fine. I was able to get the GR33 (I believe that was it) to track fine when I had a chance to mess with one once.

Update:
I used the word “fine” when referring to tracking of various systems. Probably the better word would be “acceptable”.
 
Last edited:
My initial experience with the long -awaited MIDI Guitar 3 is …VERY buggy and unstable in this early beeta, has frozen my Mac numerous times, and ,deal-breakingly ,no longer has the ability to operate at 48 , only 44.1, which makes digital compatibility
with FAS units sucky.
Bummer.
 
bradlake said:
My initial experience with the long -awaited MIDI Guitar 3 is …VERY buggy and unstable in this early beeta, has frozen my Mac numerous times, and ,deal-breakingly ,no longer has the ability to operate at 48 , only 44.1, which makes digital compatibility
with FAS units sucky.
Bummer.
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm missing something, but how did that come into play previously?
 
unix-guy said:
Maybe I'm missing something, but how did that come into play previously?
Click to expand...
@unix-guy also @bradlake are you using the beta? I was checking out the details last night. I have never actually bought a license, but signed up for the beta when it becomes available for anyone. I was considering getting MG2 now. It does seems like MG3 is still rather buggy, but having the glaring issues addressed quickly. Like I think I saw the 44.1kHz has been is due to be addressed. A new beta version was released yesterday.

So what is the deal with Jam Origin? Is it just one guy because it does seem to be very slow in advancements. MG3 looks very promising if it can all come together.
 
rockstarjazzcat said:
Let me know how it goes with latency? I had better luck with tapping on the YRG. I don't pick with these interfaces, and that approach (all hammer-on) may not be getting as much love by the testers. Cheers, D
Click to expand...

I had the chance to spend some time with it today, I set up an old laptop just for that.

I couldn't feel any latency at all with Pianoteq VST through Reaper (which reports less than 3ms at 96K/24b, 128 buffer size).

Nope, I won't be bothered with picking at all (well, the bow mode is very interesting), I prefer the grid/tap mode...being able to play as many notes as you like on the same "string" at the same time is just magic!

Playing it like a guitar is a bit strage to me, so far, it doesn't really have a body so...but I like playing it on my lap.

It's too soon for a full review but I am keeping it for sure.
 
GitGuy513 said:
@unix-guy also @bradlake are you using the beta? I was checking out the details last night. I have never actually bought a license, but signed up for the beta when it becomes available for anyone. I was considering getting MG2 now. It does seems like MG3 is still rather buggy, but having the glaring issues addressed quickly. Like I think I saw the 44.1kHz has been is due to be addressed. A new beta version was released yesterday.

So what is the deal with Jam Origin? Is it just one guy because it does seem to be very slow in advancements. MG3 looks very promising if it can all come together.
Click to expand...
It's only Mac right now... I only use it on iOS (and I don't have a Mac) so I'll have to wait.

I think it's a one man show but I'm not sure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom