Mids

[torkolort]

Since the guitar is a mid instrument, why is it so normal to scoop the mids? I've been doing it all along just because I felt I had to, but now that I'm experimenting without the scoop, it sounds much better...it sounds more alive and not so dull.

 

[james...]

I usually dial in more mids than normal. About 1 or 2 oclock.

 

[Jack Napalm]

Since the guitar is a mid instrument, why is it so normal to scoop the mids? I've been doing it all along just because I felt I had to, but now that I'm experimenting without the scoop, it sounds much better...it sounds more alive and not so dull.

It works for some songs. I like doing it for metal. Its just a way to get a sound that works for what you are playing.

 

[mesaboog]

imho scooping the mids sounds great when playing alone, but with a band at concert volume, you need those mids to cut through. It really all comes down to where you want to sit in the mix and the frequencies of the other instruments. In some cases scooping the mids is what you want/need, in other cases depending on the other instruments, you might get buried in the mix...lows competing with the bass and highs & high mids getting eaten by the cymbals & or keys.

 

[Sammetal91]

Well some guitars have more or less mids depending on the wood, pickups, pick thickness, string gauge, how beefy your fingers are, when the bird goes COO COO, the position of the planets, etc. So it just really depends on what you want at the moment and how it sounds at the moment. Sometimes a bit of scooping clears it up a bit, sometimes it just turns it into a bloody next door room playing mess. Thank goodness for that geq.

 

[wake911]

and don't lots of folks "scoop the mids" like i think petrucci scoops the shit out of his on his EQ Faders,, but then brings the mids back in through the tone knobs a bit, cause it helps with the flubbiness in tha amp or something like that?

 

[alcaldwell]

torkolort,

http://www.recordingeq.com/EQ/req0400/OctaveEQ.htm

The upper-mids are where I like to live a lot of the time (ie. 2.5kHz to 4kHz) when I'm playing in a full band context. The thing to remember is that everything is always RELATIVE to what the other musicians are doing. The phrase 'cut through' gets thrown around a lot. But if all the mid-range instruments are focusing in on the upper-mid frequency range, then you won't hear yourself as well. Everything gets washed out.

For example, I usually play with an acoustic guitar player, a keyboard player and a bassist. I usually ask the acoustic guitar player to scoop out some of these upper-mid frequencies so they aren't fighting with me. This isn't usually a problem, because acoustic guitar is more of a full-range instrument than electric. I like the acoustic to have a lot of presence (ie. 4-6kHz) on it so you can better hear the strumming, clicking and scraping of the pick on the strings.

With the piano, I just try to structure my parts to be where the piano isn't. If they are doing something up high, I'll do something lower and vice-versa. Of course, piano players are traditionally hard to work with... If they have a background in classical music, they are used to having to fill all of the sonic space themselves. Which doesn't work in a band context.

Finally, you have to consider what to do if you are playing metal with a 2nd guitarist. Different amps and cabs help. Different mid range frequencies help too. And of course, playing different voicings of the same chord give you a full, clearer sound.

Cheers,
-AL

 

[Sammetal91]

@Wake911 & alcaldwell

Good advice. I'm gonna try that now :razz

 

[barhrecords]

Since the guitar is a mid instrument, why is it so normal to scoop the mids? I've been doing it all along just because I felt I had to, but now that I'm experimenting without the scoop, it sounds much better...it sounds more alive and not so dull.

Good advice alcaldwell!

For me, a question like this falls under the "define a goal before making changes" rule.

In other words, make changes only to achieve something, whatever your goal is.

IMO changes, e.g. EQ, without any goal produce somewhat random results.

YMMV,
- Richard

 

[666was999]

Cabs and mics supply mids enough. No need to worry. You'd need extreme EQing to get that curve flat again.
A little scoop in the mids will not change the overall shaping of the curve.
The reason why this has such an impact on the sound, is that the we hear the mids better than the outher frequencies.
Our ears are very sensitive between 1K and 1.5K.
Look flechter-munsons curves.

 

[Sammetal91]

@666was999 yep since our ears seem to respond most to those mids, I guess that's why us guitarists are the most finicky of the lot :lol

 

[shredi knight]

and don't lots of folks "scoop the mids" like i think petrucci scoops the shit out of his on his EQ Faders,,....

Yeah, but that's on the Mesa Boogie Mark series amps (with the on-board graphic eq set to the "Classic V" curve) which are very midrange heavy amps. You have to scoop the mids some on those just to get them to sound even and not so boxy and "honky". Listen to this live clip of Petrucci's tone where he's using a Mesa Mark IV. I don't think his tone sounds very scooped at all. Pretty even and fairly midrangy to my ears:

....but then brings the mids back in through the tone knobs a bit, cause it helps with the flubbiness in tha amp or something like that?

Your thinking of the Bass knob on those amps. It has to be kept really low (2 is pretty typical) to avoid flubbiness because the tonestack is located before the preamp section. The bass is then typically put back in with boosting the first two sliders of the on-board eq (which is located after the preamp and before the power amp).