Midi Thru

retnuH

retnuH

Member
I'm setting up my new XL+ to work with my Rocktron Midi Raider and can't get the MR to update from changes on the Axe like when I change a preset on the front of the Axe. Right now the MR just stays on the original preset that was sent from it.
When I hook up the midi out on the Axe back to the midi in on the MR, the Axe gets weird and goes to another patch then stops responding. I talked to Jim at Rocktron and he suggested that I see if I could set the Axe to receive on channel 1 and send on channel 2 back to the MR but I don't see where that is possible to set. I also see in the current manual from 2014 that there was a midi thru setting that would turn off the original communications into the Axe and keep them from looping back to the midi out but that setting isn't in the menu on the XL+ so I suspect that was for when the Axe didn't have the midi out jack. The original com sent is most likely looping around and locking things up in the MR or Axe.
Does anyone have any ideas? I can't find anything pertinent on the forum.
Thanks for any help,
Hunter
 
There is no 2 way communication with most midi controllers, including the MR. The MR basically sends info to the Axe in this setup. The Axe doesn't send or change anything on the MR.

Specialized devices like the MFC, Liquid Foot and MMGT controllers have bi-directional communication. But not "normal" controllers like the MR.
 
Typically MIDI sends on all 16 channels. The device that is impacted depends on what channel that device is set to. MIDI out will reflect what comes in but is impacted if you use a map. So if a Patch 7 comes in, but that is mapped to Patch 10, the MIDI out will relect 10 whereas the THRU will reflect a 7.

On a given device that has both a THRU and OUT, if you were not using preset mapping, you would see no difference between the THRU and OUT. Therefore due to size conservation some manufacturers put only one output and you choose the behavior you want it to have. Either THRU or OUT.

I will say I am totally 'not' familiar with your Raider switch but the hookup you describe generically sounds odd. Unless it has some intelligence built in. Not sure why you would want to loop it back from the Axe. If it is a footswitch and you are using it to change presets on the Axe I would think you would just run MIDI out on the Raider to MIDI in on the Axe.
 
I understand all of that but this way worked on my old tube rig and would work on this one too if there was a way in the Axe to shut off midi commands that come into the Axe from the MR from going right back out the midi out on the Axe to the MR. That's what a thru port is for- to mirror what comes in and send it down the line and generally the midi out should only send commands on that originate in the device, not from other devices. If the Axe still had the option to shut the "thru" commands off from going through the out like it shows in the manual then all would be well but the manual and XL+ don't match up in this regard.
What I am trying to do is that when I change a preset on the Axe with the dial, have the MR update to the new preset instead of staying on the last preset. My old Rig had a Triaxis, Digitech GSP 1101 and a TC G major and when I changed to a different patch in one of those units the MR would change to the new preset chosen too. This is sometimes one of the benefits of a proprietary controller but would work if the Axe didn't send thru commands to the midi out. Make sense?
The problem that it causes is that if I'm tweaking a preset on the front of the Axe and it doesn't update to the MR, if I hit something on the board to try it out before it is saved it will change the preset and erase everything that I just did when I'm having to get to the current preset.
I may just have to go to the MFC eventually but there are some things about it that turn me off.
 
i'm pretty sure the issue is that the Axe doesn't send standard Midi data when changing things on the front panel or changing presets with the Value knob. specific SysEx info comes out, and the MR can't interpret that.

so the real wish here is for the Axe to send out basic Midi data when changing presets from the Front Panel.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
i'm pretty sure the issue is that the Axe doesn't send standard Midi data when changing things on the front panel or changing presets with the Value knob. specific SysEx info comes out, and the MR can't interpret that.

so the real wish here is for the Axe to send out basic Midi data when changing presets from the Front Panel.
Click to expand...

That would be half of it but it would also have to only send that program change message out the out and not mirror other data that came into it, just keep that going through the thru. I had to push the knob button on my G-Major to get it to send the program change but it worked well in updating the MR.
 
retnuH said:
and not mirror other data that came into it
Click to expand...

the THRU is what passes on incoming data. the OUT is for the original sent data. so as long as the MR is connected to the OUT and not THRU, it would work. but again, the other thing i mentioned would have to happen first.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
the THRU is what passes on incoming data. the OUT is for the original sent data. so as long as the MR is connected to the OUT and not THRU, it would work. but again, the other thing i mentioned would have to happen first.
Click to expand...
I'm trying to figure out what is going on but it initially looks the out is passing the original data through also. There may be something funky in the MR too, not sure and will ahve to sort it out. I'm not hopeful it will work at this time though.
I'm trying to get my wah autoengage to work with my Mission pedal first though and can't quite get it to work correctly either. I'll be glad when I get the basics dialed in this thing so I can work on tones and get back to playing instead of tweaking.
 
retnuH said:
I'm trying to figure out what is going on but it initially looks the out is passing the original data through also.
Click to expand...

...because your Axe is not using mapping and the Axe is not generating MIDI to MIDI OUT therefore MIDI OUT and MIDI THRU would be identical.

If you switch on mapping on the Axe and route Preset 1 to 7 then your MIDI OUT will send a 7 and your midi thru will send a 1.

The function of OUT is on a per device basis. There are some rule breakers out there. GR-55 and X-32.
 
Last edited:
2 way communication should be possible, the MIDI implementation chart says, that the Axe sends front panel changes. If the Axe can't handle the connection with 2 cables, I'd look into the MIDI settings of the MR (If the MR is not already in SETUP mode, press "2nd", then "SETUP", followed by "->" six times): The merge-function for the channel you are using for the Axe must be set to "bloc". If it was set to "merge", it would loop back the (into the MR) incoming data to the Axe.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the help guys but neither of those worked either. The mapping created a buffer overflow and locked the MR up. Changing the merge on the MR didn't do anything different either. I noticed it doesn't fully lock up the Axe when the midi in is also plugged into the MR, it just gets really slow and won't change to anything from the main screen. One other thing I noticed is that when the midi was plugged in and I hit something on the MR it would change the preset on the Axe to the preset number plus 7, so 1 became 8 and so on.
I really needed this over the weekend when I was setting up all my patches from my old rig in the Axe using Axe-Edit but lived without it. I have been through the MR manual and everything I have found to try as well as your ideas and Jim from Rocktron has also weighed in so I think I've come to the end of the road.
One thing I did read in the MR manual is that it is designed for bi-directional communication with other Rocktron units and will let a Rocktron unit control the status of the switches instead of them being controlled by the MR so it's too bad the Axe can't model that behavior too like it does everything else!
 
I think it also matters what kind of MIDI cable you use. Both cables have to have 5 conductors. There are cheap MIDI cables that only use 3 conductors.
 
Yeah I asked Jim at Rocktron about that when I first started this and he said they did sometimes use pins 4 and 5 even though their cables don't have them wired. They don't wire them in the powered cable because of the power. I put metal ends on my Rocktron cables and didn't wire pins 4 and 5 either but he wasn't real clear as to whether that would help or not. I plan on wiring them up when I get a chance and see if it makes a difference as a last chance. None of the midi cables I have, even the decent ones have them wired though but I have a couple left to check and make sure.
 
The Axe-FX won't send any commands the MR can respond to. The manual says PC but it's really a sysex message that goes out when changing presets via front panel.
 
strat714 said:
I think it also matters what kind of MIDI cable you use. Both cables have to have 5 conductors. There are cheap MIDI cables that only use 3 conductors.
Click to expand...

MIDI only uses three conductors though... the other two are for phantom power (if connect devices can send and receive it)
 
Bakerman said:
The Axe-FX won't send any commands the MR can respond to. The manual says PC but it's really a sysex message that goes out when changing presets via front panel.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, so that's probably what is locking it up then. So does the original command going through midi thru send the changes to chained gear down the line then? Too bad it doesn't send program changes like it says in the manual then as it would probably would work then. Any chance the Fractal guys could include something in FW 19 to make this work?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom