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Mesa Mark Series Graphic EQ Block

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
marvinx said:
i think the mark model needs two gains like the real one.
~mx~
The Mark V actually has only one drive knob. They MESA guys calculated that the ideal drive for the GAIN knob would be 7.6 and that can't be tweaked with the Mark V. I think this would be a nice change to the Axe-Fx USA LEAD 1 sim. Maybe a "USA LEAD 3" that basically has the Mark V lead channel that only has that one drive knob.
 

Axisman5150

Experienced
Clark Kent said:
marvinx said:
i think the mark model needs two gains like the real one.
~mx~
The Mark V actually has only one drive knob. They MESA guys calculated that the ideal drive for the GAIN knob would be 7.6 and that can't be tweaked with the Mark V. I think this would be a nice change to the Axe-Fx USA LEAD 1 sim. Maybe a "USA LEAD 3" that basically has the Mark V lead channel that only has that one drive knob.
Just put a filter in front of the amp block and and adjust the volume to taste. It works great with the USA and MKII sims.
 

GM Arts

Power User
joegold said:
This is just one of many other reasons why the Axe's Amp block will never be able to *exactly* replicate any particular amp that Cliff attempts to simulate. All he can do is to get us in the general vicinity, in very close proximity actually, but it will never be all the way "there".
If people believe the job of a modeller is to exactly emulate every nuance of their favourite amp because they believe their favourite amp is the ultimate, then why bother using a modeller? You're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

OTOH, I find I can get BETTER tones from some of my favourite amp models than the real thing by using pre and post EQ as well as amp tweaks to tailor them to my guitar, playing style and preferences. So for me, some of these models score 11/10 compared to the real thing - they really do go to 11 :lol:
 

marvinx

Inspired
Clark Kent said:
marvinx said:
i think the mark model needs two gains like the real one.
~mx~
The Mark V actually has only one drive knob. They MESA guys calculated that the ideal drive for the GAIN knob would be 7.6 and that can't be tweaked with the Mark V. I think this would be a nice change to the Axe-Fx USA LEAD 1 sim. Maybe a "USA LEAD 3" that basically has the Mark V lead channel that only has that one drive knob.
Yeah i know i had a Mark V. That was one of the many reasons i didn't like it actually. I found i got far better tones from my buddy's mark III, but i definitely had to play with both gains to get the tones i wanted.

For a while Cliff was toying with the idea of letting us adjust the pre gain, but for some reason he dropped the idea.
~mx~
 

mr.beatdoctor

New Member
I have spent a while trying to the mark geq sound right and have tried the geq and peq with mediocre results until 5 minutes ago as I was reading through this thread and revisiting shrediknight's wiki settings. I have been playing other sims just because I could make them sound great but I still wanted to make the heavy mark sound work. The mark sims with no eq have been just fine and despite having been a mark player and having owned several I am perfectly happy without a gain and a drive knob. The problems that people are having are in the peq settings. As soon as I turned the first and last bands in the PEQ to peaking instead of shelving it all came together. I am using the Q and freq. settings from the schematic that are posted everywhere, setting all bands to peaking and the setting the boost and cut to where I would on the real amp and it sounds great. GIVE IT A SHOT.
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
Cool. I'm only using the 720hz-ish GEQ setting with 0.707Q and -5.95dB and with that I get better tones with it than with other amp sims. Got to give that peaking thing a try.
 

Cron

Inspired
I tried setting the outer peq bands to peaking tonight at rehearsal.... really really helped.

Thanks a lot for the tip!
 

marvinx

Inspired
joegold said:
marvinx said:
i think the mark model needs two gains like the real one.
~mx~
The Amp Block will always have one set, and only one set, of available parameters for all the possible Amp Types.

Learn to live with it.

This is just one of many other reasons why the Axe's Amp block will never be able to *exactly* replicate any particular amp that Cliff attempts to simulate.
All he can do is to get us in the general vicinity, in very close proximity actually, but it will never be all the way "there".
Or, he may be able to come very very close to simulating a handful of the potential sounds that one of these real-world amps is capable of producing. But he won't be able to replicate *all* of the sounds that amp is capable of.
If you really want the *exact* sound you've heard from some Mesa amp you've owned, you're gonna have to go back to using that *exact* same amp.

If you want more versatility than that amp is capable of producing, but you still want tones that are equally musical or even more musical than that amp, then you might want to keep using the Axe.
There is no reason he can't add an extra drive control. He has even said on this forum that he was considering adding it.
~mx~
 

joegold

Fractal Fanatic
marvinx said:
There is no reason he can't add an extra drive control. He has even said on this forum that he was considering adding it.
~mx~
The reason that the MK Series Boogies have 2 gain controls is because the Lead Channel shares one of the gain controls (along with a preamp tube stage) with the Clean Channel.
The Axe's Mesa sims do not fit this paradigm, so there is no need for 2 gain controls.

I'm sure that the subtle effects that can be achieved by the various possible settings of a real Boogie's twin gain controls can be achieved in other ways, EQ settings for example, with the Axe.
I don't think that Cliff ever set out to be able to exactly replicate every possible sound that every amp he modelled is capable of producing with every possible setting of its controls. I don't think that's possible to achieve anyway.
 

marvinx

Inspired
joegold said:
marvinx said:
There is no reason he can't add an extra drive control. He has even said on this forum that he was considering adding it.
~mx~
The reason that the MK Series Boogies have 2 gain controls is because the Lead Channel shares one of the gain controls (along with a preamp tube stage) with the Clean Channel.
The Axe's Mesa sims do not fit this paradigm, so there is no need for 2 gain controls.

I'm sure that the subtle effects that can be achieved by the various possible settings of a real Boogie's twin gain controls can be achieved in other ways, EQ settings for example, with the Axe.
I don't think that Cliff ever set out to be able to exactly replicate every possible sound that every amp he modelled is capable of producing with every possible setting of its controls. I don't think that's possible to achieve anyway.
No they cant , the first drive control controls a single gain stage. You cant just control a single gain stage in any way with the axe-fx. Its either eq with the tone stack, eq before the tone stack, or after everything.

Fryette Deliverances and Sig:x's do something similar. They share no gain control with a clean channel FYI. On the deliverance this first gain control is called "voicing" , giving you a very good indication as to how much of a difference the adjustment of this parameter can make.

~mx~
 

joegold

Fractal Fanatic
marvinx said:
joegold said:
marvinx said:
There is no reason he can't add an extra drive control. He has even said on this forum that he was considering adding it.
~mx~
The reason that the MK Series Boogies have 2 gain controls is because the Lead Channel shares one of the gain controls (along with a preamp tube stage) with the Clean Channel.
The Axe's Mesa sims do not fit this paradigm, so there is no need for 2 gain controls.

I'm sure that the subtle effects that can be achieved by the various possible settings of a real Boogie's twin gain controls can be achieved in other ways, EQ settings for example, with the Axe.
I don't think that Cliff ever set out to be able to exactly replicate every possible sound that every amp he modelled is capable of producing with every possible setting of its controls. I don't think that's possible to achieve anyway.
No they cant , the first drive control controls a single gain stage. You cant just control a single gain stage in any way with the axe-fx. Its either eq with the tone stack, eq before the tone stack, or after everything.

Fryette Deliverances and Sig:x's do something similar. They share no gain control with a clean channel FYI. On the deliverance this first gain control is called "voicing" , giving you a very good indication as to how much of a difference the adjustment of this parameter can make.

~mx~
Well, assuming you're correct about the function of the first Gain knob in those circuits, and I'm not 100% sure you are (especially in the case of the Deliverance), then all I can really say is that, for me, I've never been real fond of amp controls that interact. I'm much happier if tweaking any given knob affects only the thing that it appears to affect. But that's just me.

But think about it man...
If you really wanted the Axe to be able to *100%* replicate all the sounds of a Mesa MK series amp, in addition to the two gain controls you'd like to see and the Mesa 5-band EQ you'd also have to have a 60/100 watt switch (for some models), a Simul-Class/Class A switch (for other models) (a Tweed Power switch (for some other models), a Pentode/Triode switch (for some other models), selectable between 6L6 and EL34 power tubes (for some models), a Pull-Shift switch and Deep/Modern/Half Power modes as well. and all those parameters would be irrelevant for ever non-Mesa Amp Type in the Amp Block.
If you want to *100%* replicate those Fryette amps you cited then the Axe's Amp Block would need a bunch of other controls that are specific to those amp models.
Etc., etc., etc.

The current hardware and software of the Axe is simply not geared towards accomplishing those goals.
 

tzrider

Inspired
joegold said:
The reason that the MK Series Boogies have 2 gain controls is because the Lead Channel shares one of the gain controls (along with a preamp tube stage) with the Clean Channel.
The Axe's Mesa sims do not fit this paradigm, so there is no need for 2 gain controls.
I don't think any of the the MkIV gain controls are shared among channels. The two rhythm channels share bass & mid controls, but those are the only shared controls on the amp, AFAIK.
 

marvinx

Inspired
[/quote]

Well, assuming you're correct about the function of the first Gain knob in those circuits, and I'm not 100% sure you are (especially in the case of the Deliverance), then all I can really say is that, for me, I've never been real fond of amp controls that interact. I'm much happier if tweaking any given knob affects only the thing that it appears to affect. But that's just me.

But think about it man...
If you really wanted the Axe to be able to *100%* replicate all the sounds of a Mesa MK series amp, in addition to the two gain controls you'd like to see and the Mesa 5-band EQ you'd also have to have a 60/100 watt switch (for some models), a Simul-Class/Class A switch (for other models) (a Tweed Power switch (for some other models), a Pentode/Triode switch (for some other models), selectable between 6L6 and EL34 power tubes (for some models), a Pull-Shift switch and Deep/Modern/Half Power modes as well. and all those parameters would be irrelevant for ever non-Mesa Amp Type in the Amp Block.
If you want to *100%* replicate those Fryette amps you cited then the Axe's Amp Block would need a bunch of other controls that are specific to those amp models.
Etc., etc., etc.

The current hardware and software of the Axe is simply not geared towards accomplishing those goals.[/quote]

1) I never said i wanted the axe to duplicate these amps perfectly. Im not sure where you got that from.
I would however like to see it take this important and significant step towards authenticity and versatility. One step forward is better than no steps at all.
Reasoning , that since it cannot reproduce all of the features you mentioned (which is false), then none should be added at all makes no sense. By that same logic there should be no master volume control (not all amps have one, and since you "can't reproduce these amps 100%" none of them should have one).
2) As you mentioned not all of the mesas/fryettes have all of the additional features you mentioned, nor would i expect to see all of them modeled. They do all however have these adjustable drive stages. I also forgot to add the tri-axis to the list.


The current hardware is perfectly capable of adding the additional drive control, the current software could be easily updated to allow the addition of an extra drive contol. This parameter does not have to be adjusted on models it does not apply to, just as you don't touch the mid control on an amp with no mid control. You leave it at it's default.

~mx~
 

joegold

Fractal Fanatic
tzrider said:
joegold said:
The reason that the MK Series Boogies have 2 gain controls is because the Lead Channel shares one of the gain controls (along with a preamp tube stage) with the Clean Channel.
The Axe's Mesa sims do not fit this paradigm, so there is no need for 2 gain controls.
I don't think any of the the MkIV gain controls are shared among channels. The two rhythm channels share bass & mid controls, but those are the only shared controls on the amp, AFAIK.
You're right.
The MK IV Lead Channel was the 1st Mark Series Lead Channal that did not share a Vol knob with the Clean Channel, and the MK IV Lead Channel also still had 2 Gain controls of its own.
 
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