Mesa Fifty/Fifty vs. VHT/Fryette 2502 vs. Engl 850/100

Wow. You are making me want to upgrade from the e840 to the 850. I'd love the extra headroom and depth controls. The e840 killed my 2/90/2 in terms of tone. I'm gonna have to order an e850 from The Axe Palace right after Christmas. I'd be curious to get that EL34 mod description off of you in case I decide to go back to EL34s down the line.
 
Larrikin666 said:
Wow. You are making me want to upgrade from the e840 to the 850. I'd love the extra headroom and depth controls. The e840 killed my 2/90/2 in terms of tone. I'm gonna have to order an e850 from The Axe Palace right after Christmas. I'd be curious to get that EL34 mod description off of you in case I decide to go back to EL34s down the line.
Click to expand...
I am generally also an EL34 guy but, this thing sounds so good with the 6L6GC's that I don't know if I can bring myself to have this mod done. If you do get get an 850/100 and change it over, please let me know how it works out!

Here is what Engl sent me:

this modification is not very difficult.
You only need to change the screen resistors from 470Ohm to 1KOhm (5Watt to be on the safe side).
Each side has 4 resistors to change. The resistors are located on the pcb a little above of each power tube socket.
After this you only need to adjust the bias.

---

Best regards

Martin Zimmermann



Engl Gerätebau GmbH
Gaisbergstraße 10
84529 Tittmoning / Germany
Tel. +49 86 83 / 89 102 -14
eMail: service@engl-amps.com
Attention! Please read and heed the following paragraph:
The device may be opened and repaired by
an authorized professional technician only.
There is hazardous high tension inside the chassis!
Risk of electric shock!
Leave tube replacement and poweramp biasing to qualified professional.
Before replacing tubes, ensure that the unit is switched off
and unplugged from the mains!
Let the tubes cool down before removing them!
 
Update on the Engl 850/100. Liking this power amp more every day and the EV speakers are breaking in well now. I have been using 2 Fractals together after watching the YT videos on Joe Bonamassa's rig. If you haven't seen his explanation for why he uses 2 amps at the same time, I think it will interest many guitar players.
Using 2 Fractal's together to build one tone gives you so many more tonal possibilities but there is one glitch. I Y-corded the two right outputs together and did the same on the left. It still sounds better with 2 processors but here is an impedance mismatch or some other phasing issue that occurs when you Y-cord them.
The cure for this is an inexpensive little mixer made by Behringer called an MX400. I bought one for the output of each side and everything came to life. The mixer isn't much bigger than a pack of cigarettes, has 4 inputs with 4 volume controls, and only costs about $30. If you are trying to use 2 Fractals together or a Fractal and some other preamp, I highly recommend getting a couple of these things. IMHO they made a big difference.
 
tony said:
I have been using 2 Fractals together after watching the YT videos on Joe Bonamassa's rig. If you haven't seen his explanation for why he uses 2 amps at the same time, I think it will interest many guitar players.
Using 2 Fractal's together to build one tone gives you so many more tonal possibilities but there is one glitch. I Y-corded the two right outputs together and did the same on the left. It still sounds better with 2 processors but here is an impedance mismatch or some other phasing issue that occurs when you Y-cord them.
Click to expand...

Why not use two amp sims in one Axe-Fx?

Phasing: there was a thread a couple of months ago, where it was indeed concluded that you cannot y-cord the outputs. Theer was also a solution posted.

About those EVs: what cabinet did you built them into?
reason: I'm - cautiously - investigating a "Fryette + Mesa Thiele 1x12 EV" option, even though my current FR does fine.
The Mesa 1x12 Thiele would be closed back. I'm wondering if open back would be better?
 
Hey Yek,
I tried the 2, 1-12" open back speaker cabs running in stereo and it sounded way too thin. I went with a Mojotone 2X12 closed back cab with the heavy grill cloth and got a much better response in terms of depth and punch. The Thiele cabs might be better.

Some of my patches already have 2 amp sims in them, however, there is another dimension using 2 different patches to create one tone. Also, you run out of CPU trying to do the same thing with one processor.

Thanks for the info. on the phasing issue using a Y-cord, I will try to find that post and read up on it.
 
tony said:
Update on the Engl 850/100. Liking this power amp more every day and the EV speakers are breaking in well now. I have been using 2 Fractals together after watching the YT videos on Joe Bonamassa's rig. If you haven't seen his explanation for why he uses 2 amps at the same time, I think it will interest many guitar players.
Using 2 Fractal's together to build one tone gives you so many more tonal possibilities but there is one glitch. I Y-corded the two right outputs together and did the same on the left. It still sounds better with 2 processors but here is an impedance mismatch or some other phasing issue that occurs when you Y-cord them.
The cure for this is an inexpensive little mixer made by Behringer called an MX400. I bought one for the output of each side and everything came to life. The mixer isn't much bigger than a pack of cigarettes, has 4 inputs with 4 volume controls, and only costs about $30. If you are trying to use 2 Fractals together or a Fractal and some other preamp, I highly recommend getting a couple of these things. IMHO they made a big difference.
Click to expand...

I'd be curious to see which YT video it was where he described his two amp method... thanks!
 
I use 2/50/2 Fryette with 4X12 AX Marshall greenback (power sim off with my Ultra) since 1 year now and i think the stock power tube (mullard el34 réissue) is very bad . I m trying a quad of SED winged C and wow : really better sound ! So 3 months after i switch to 6CA7EH duet on 1 side and KT77JJ on the other side (i play mono) Fantastic improve !! I like more 6CA7 now because it s more Fenderish tone (middle scoop and high end very detailled ) KT77 is more in your face big bass , midrangy in a good way , less high end but good presence .
If you buy a Fryette you ll be happy but you ll absoluty must changing power tube .that s what i think ...
 
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tony said:
I tried the 2, 1-12" open back speaker cabs running in stereo and it sounded way too thin. I went with a Mojotone 2X12 closed back cab with the heavy grill cloth and got a much better response in terms of depth and punch. The Thiele cabs might be better.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
Respectfully, I must disagree on the closed back cabs.
In my system experiments I started with closed backs,
went to ported, then open cabs. I'll grant that if all you
play is metal, then closed might be the best choice.
But for a wide variety of music (I'm a cover band player
doing mainly classic rock) the opens do it best to my ears.
Clear, precise, unmuffled.

With my 2/90/2 into four EVM's and a "djent" style EQ
I get crushing low end, and brutal palm mutted punch
even thru open pine 2x12's.

IMHO open back cabs help give me the clarity I need to be
able to use my patches live with the cab sims ON.
 
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Today I changed out one side of the ENGL 850/100 from stock 6L6's to EL34's. It made an incredible difference! Very smooth and very sweet on that side. No harshness, just creamy fat tone. I was going to run one side 6L6 and the other EL34 for a "blend" of different tube tones but the side with the EL34's is so good, that I can't stand the 6L6 side now. I like the EL34's better for BOTH clean and distorted tones but the distorted tones are just amazing with the EL34's.
 
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