Matrix NL212 cab.... a bit confused with something regarding stereo/mono cabs

Jeff B

Jeff B

Inspired
Hey all! So, I wanted to take a moment to post this question, as I'm a bit confused about stereo cabs, most notably the Matrix NL212.

I have been considering trying out one of these cabs, as I'm currently running my AFX into a custom Xitone FRFR at times and then other times I've been running into a traditional 2x12 cab filled with Celestion Greenbacks. Still experimenting with what I like more and such which is what brings me to considering a try with the NL12/NL212. After reading the FAQ's on the Matrix website, I came across this whole stereo vs mono thing. Here's the link:

Stereo and FRFR - FAQ

Now I do realize that for one to truly take advantage of a stereo setup, the speakers should be spread apart from each other and such, but then in this case why would Matrix even make a stereo cab? As they mention, you'd have to literally be listening 18" in front of the speaker to get the stereo advantage. I also hear some users on this forum talk about how they run into stereo cabs as well. I've only run my AFX in stereo through my studio monitors and it sounded great... but I was also sitting 3 feet in the center of them both, as you would in a studio setting. Live is obviously much different.

So, I was hoping to hear from any of you running a stereo cab and get your insight into why you choose to do so and if you feel the NL212 would offer me anything more by running in that configuration rather than through a mono cab? Also, if you're then using a traditional-style cab (such as the NL line of cabs or other guitar cab) in stereo and have to mic up for a live show (since you're not running IR's/cab block to FOH), then you'd have to use 2 mics on each speaker of the cab to get the stereo feel?? I suppose this may be an amateur question, but I'm curious before I go purchasing a new cab to try out.

Thanks for any and all your help! :)
 
I have the same concerns as you when it comes to stereo 2x12 cabs. OTOH, there are some good applications of the concept. The Jazz Chorus comes to my mind, and the Yamaha THR as well: when a DSP takes care of ambience, then these configurations can give great results: usually, a phase shift between the two challens can create a great space effect (try the reverb in the THR and you'll see what I mean). IOW, I believe that a stereo signal is worth a 2x12 only when/if a space effect is engaged (stereo chorus, or any form of phase shift). If you like the idea of often having such effects on, it's worth using such cabs IMO. A completely different issue regards double amping: if you send a different amp/sound to each channel you'll certainly get better results that mixing two amps into the same cone, even tho - as you have correctly pointed out - in order to hear the sound the way you do with a real stereo solution you'll have to stick hour head against the grids :)
 
even if the speakers are sitting next to each other in the same enclosure, 2 speakers with different or slightly different "data" will have a different sound and feel than 2 speakers with the same data. of course the farther apart the speakers sit, more depth or spread will be experienced.

but even if it's not for that wide stereo feel, you basically have 2 independent speakers and one can run a clean sound and the other a dirty sound and you blend them, or many other things to do with 2 separate speakers. i guess you could call that dual mono instead, but the capability of either is still there.
 
A couple of other hidden (not as publicized) variations...

1) Stereo 2x12... two guitarists... one each side of the stage... each one has one driver in each 2x12... I have a band from Chicago doing this with a pair of 2x12's and they love it! They set them up vertically and go from there. They use this in a backline config.

2) Stereo 2x12... Guitar in one side and vocal mix in the other. This is most effective with a 2x12 wedge with it aiming back at ya!

Agree with the others here... Stereo 2x12's and 4x12's for that matter are to me, limited use in a pure stereo, left-right separation kind of way but for other uses where the closeness of the drivers is factored in properly, they are hard to beat!
 
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Jeff B said:
HNow I do realize that for one to truly take advantage of a stereo setup, the speakers should be spread apart from each other and such, but then in this case why would Matrix even make a stereo cab?
Click to expand...

The answer is simple: With the NL212, it is a "tradtional" cab rather than FRFR, so it has 2 x 12" speakers. We added the option of using it in stereo because by doing this, we did no lose anything from the cabinet. We didn't have to add any additional drivers or modify the way it works, we just added some extra wiring and an switch to give you the option to use it in "stereo", if you like how that works for you, great. We did not have to compromise the performance of the cabinet to give this option.

We do not make a stereo FRFR cabinet, because to do this, we would have to make compromises that affect how it would work in mono, that would affect the dispersion and would require adding additional HF drivers that would actually make the acoustic performance worse. We believe that if you want true FRFR stereo, you need two cabs and some space between them. We do not believe a single cab FRFR "stereo" solution is the right way to do it, and we will not compromise the performance of our mono cabs. We want them to sound totally awesome :)

With the NL212, nothing was lost by offering stereo, so we added it as an switchable option.
 
MicFarlow said:
A couple of other hidden (not as publicized) variations...1) Stereo 2x12... two guitarists... one each side of the stage... each one has one driver in each 2x12... I have a band from Chicago doing this with a pair of 2x12's and they love it! They set them up vertically and go from there. They use this in a backline config.
Click to expand...
I like this :D
 
I have a couple of NL212's and love them. For the small gigs and practice I bring along my Q12A. I like having the extra option of using a single 2x12 in stereo or bringing both NL212's to scare the kids with their Line6's. I really like the fact they are so light and it makes a WORLD of difference in getting extra helpers to load the car up. Loading/Stacking a pair of Light Weight 2x12's instead of a single 4x12 cab is two different games. People cannot believe how light they are and how big they sound. If I really want to wow them, I put one 2x12 on each side of the drummer or further apart if I can. It's like putting on a set of stereo headphones. Sound seems to come from all directions and it sounds much fuller, even with a mono signal. Whatever you have, split them up and move them apart.
If you start lugging stuff around a bunch, you will really appreciate the fact the Matrix NL's are so light.
For me it doesn't matter if I use my FRFR setup or the NL speakers, I still sound like me and not one of the hot shoes on this forum. Someday..

Loopie.
 
Definitely want to thank you guys for the replies and feedback. Mick... I love the "hidden" variations you mentioned, especially the first one regarding 2 guitarists. That's a great idea to get maximum usage of such a cabinet.

So overall it seems as though running yourself stereo into a 2x12 traditional cab (such as the NL212's), isn't something that any of you are doing, but rather just running mono to both speakers, if you had to have only a single 2x12 cab? I wouldn't, at the moment anyways, have the option to really run multiple cabs on opposite sides of a stage, as some local venues are VERY tight as it is and wouldn't allow for such positioning. So for myself I would either just be running a single or a 2x12. I suppose that if I did choose to run my stereo signal (say using my studio preset settings), I wouldn't necessarily be losing, nor gaining anything. It would just sound more "mixed" coming from a single sourced cab and not as spacious, but wouldn't cause any issues, correct?
 
Jeff B said:
It would just sound more "mixed" coming from a single sourced cab and not as spacious, but wouldn't cause any issues, correct?
Click to expand...

That's correct. Matrix provided the option to run the cabinet in stereo as an option. It's only an option for you to try and maybe you will like it, or maybe not, or you might feel it makes no difference. But by giving you the stereo option, they have eliminated people from complaining/wishing if was a mono only, like most 2x12's or 4x12's are.
Thank you Matrix for giving us the option.
Hopefully they will soon be coming out with the TC212. The Talent Cab 2x12. My next purchase. :)

Loopie..
 
'you basically have 2 independent speakers and one can run a clean sound and the other a dirty sound and you blend them, or many other things to do with 2 separate speakers'.

Recently I've been starting with identical signal chains to each side, and then changing just one of them slightly by maybe changing a driver in the cab sim, or putting one virtual mic on axis and one off. The changes seem more distinct when split between the two physical drivers in stereo mode as opposed to being summed back into mono and sent to a single driver. I suspect this effect would also disappear if you got far enough away from the cab though. Thus far we have had no problems with stereo FRFR in a single cab and the Gemini-2 can be run in mono if required. The trade off is the stereo cabs are heavier, but less overall that two mono cabs. James.
 
Interesting ideas on how to utilize 2 signal chains, James. But in that scenario in a live setting, how would you mic the cab? 2 mics?

I know that anything other than using an FRFR will not generally be used with cab/mic sims in the AFX, so the option to run direct to FOH is out of the question, yes?
 
Jeff B said:
Interesting ideas on how to utilize 2 signal chains, James. But in that scenario in a live setting, how would you mic the cab? 2 mics?

I know that anything other than using an FRFR will not generally be used with cab/mic sims in the AFX, so the option to run direct to FOH is out of the question, yes?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you can use two directional mics up close so you don't get too much crosstalk. You can also use one mic with some air. It's not so much that you are trying to get a stereo effect, but that you are sending the two different signal paths to separate drivers.
 
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